The Problem With Smart Characters | Writing Tips

Very good way to do it! That's the biggest advantage writers have to "cheat", by basically using prep time their characters won't have.

this is the way to address the "the character cannot be smarter than the writer", people forget the element of time also plays a role

@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt I've noticed the same thing about sitcom dialogue. Characters that are supposed to be witty come up with insanely quotable quips like they fell into the fortune cookie jar as a toddler and will just rapid-fire them at each other. The trick is to make it sound even remotely like normal people having a normal conversation. Gilmore Girls comes to mind as a prime example, but anything with a laugh track works, really.

To be fair, Sherlock Holmes might be using some magic. Afterall, what he does in his spare time is rather Strange.

That’s a great rule ima use that

Win-win scenario lol, funnily enough I can completely see that.

@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt she is a well written character, then?

Basically Xanatos from Gargoyles.

"Trust the plan, guys. Trust the plan."

She made a plan that can't fail because failure is also fine. A plan that needs to fail is bad, but a plan that will work either way is perfect. The only true failure would be something she didn't expect happening. However there weren't actually many options outside of what happened in the show. So it was easy to cover them.

Completely agree with whoever wrote it, it's nice to see so many other people calling out Sherlock (and others) for this.

Probably explains why smart people in so many shows and movies are depicted as being pretty heavily on the spectrum, the writers can't understand how they think so default to stereotyped autism

The main problem of Sherlock is the success of the show. In the first episode, after he discusses his "deductions" of Watson with Watson in the car, they leave the car nad Sherlock asks, if he did get anything wrong, and, after Watson says, he had everythin right, Sherlock says himself "I didn't expect to be right about everything", so even he himself recognizes, that he just guessed a lot of things, but was accidentaly right. In the third episode "The Great Game", he admits, that he finds the answers only because "M" wants him to find the answers, so the whole process is rigged. So he knows, he is nor perfect and guesses a lot in Season 1. But after Season 1, this changes completely and he is always right. Btw., the greatest example I know in movies for the smartest person in the world is Ozymandias in the Watchmen. He has a plan, he has a reason for the plan, and everything he does is part of the plan and brings the protagonists to act like he wants them to. And in the end, he achieves his goals.

@@Charon10-kb1bs "In the end? Nothing ends Adrian. Nothing ever ends."

irc it specifically mentioned Anton Chigurh as an example of a smart person written by smart people, and that always stuck with me.

If they make sage out to be a charlatan that would be a great twist and make up for it all

Lol I like it. I should use this at work.

@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt Though for what it’s worth, being a fraud still requires a level of intelligence. After (spoilers) the Wizard of Oz is exposed as a humbug and explains how he faked all the magic the Ozites believe he’s done, he honestly comes across as significantly smarter for having been able to pull off those tricks

@@matityaloran9157 Yeah very true. Catch Me If You Can comes to mind for that as well.

I somewhat agree... I think its possible shes lying to homelander about actually orchestrating the events... I think however she is indeed intelligent but the end was not really her plan but found an opportunity to further her influence on homelander by saying that it was her plan...

Very good point! Reminds me a little of Dunning Kruger effect.

😂Believing collecting more data that can smooth things

That's true. Superintelligence usually ends being portrayed as a combination of superconfidence plus superluck.

I actually remember a scene in Black sails where the lead character sortof answers his own take on this that he knows he's certainly capable of being wrong on an assumption he's made that leads to his current course of action, but he's got to A: follow through on what he believes to be the most likely possibility, rather than all the alternative options he then goes on to list, and B: He needs to confidently assert to his crew that it is the only option because he needs them to believe it and not question his orders if there is any chance at all in accomplishing his ends.

There's a villain in know of that intentionally tries to make his intelligence come across as this "magical leap in logic".
(He's a supernatural being that feeds on the hearts of people. He consumes your heart when you fear him too much.)
(He basically spins a lot of plans and lies around his prey, and he takes great effort to hide how he came up with his plans, and how he gained the knowledge he needed to hatch those plans.
(He also makes a lot of calculated gambles. When he wins the gamble, he pretends like he knew it was going to happen the whole time. When he loses the gamble, he pretends like his failure was just a distraction from something even bigger.)
Basically, he tries to come across as some near omnicient genius who has everything figured out from the beginning. It instills more fear when his victims see him this way.

I really like death note, and L is a great character.

L makes it extremely large mistake at the very beginning With that fake broadcast
He assumes that the person watching the broadcast who then used to the death note to kill lives in that area and is not simply on Vacation
the killing is also done with a supernatural power So how can he know That the person does not have a psychic ability to know about this broadcast without having to watch it in the area it's broadcaster
and the broadcast trick can never be a perfect people have to be broadcasting it filming it elle had to go through some channels to get his hands on a death row inmate
So how does he know that information about this impending broadcast was not weak Or that the trick itself was not leak
how does he know the killer wasn't the cameraman Or any one of the good hundred people would have to be involved in this
even he did as much of the work by himself and with his butler That is still at the absolute bare minimum quite a few people who have to know what he's doing

@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt I once watched a joke video on death note where Kira gets wrapped with guilt and decides to confess all of his crimes to L explaining absolutely all of the details
only for L to conclude that the explanation is absolutely insanity and retarded so he concludes that light must be mentally retarded and not actually a genius for coming up with such a dumb confession so hell completely dropped his suspicions of light apologizes and leaves
only for a confused light to realize that somehow he just won the game by confessing
it was actually a really good video and pointed out the absurdity of the entire show to have so many supernatural aspects in what is supposed to be a non magical rational world

​@yami122 you got a point, but Kira's reaction to this made it obvious that he was right. He did make an assumption there, but the following mistakes Kira has done proved that his assumption was right.

​​@@yami122
1. If no one would have done anything (as they are not Japanese or are away), then this itself would have been one of the possible conclusions (other than that they chose not to respond). In which case, in the Death Note verse, there would be another plan.
2. They were probing for data. They had to make some assumptions initially to start their experiments. They already had data which indicated a single human at the beginning: the incidents occuring only after school hours, and only to those whose data was shared publically, and in order of data reveal.
3. Logistics are a major problem, and finally that is what made them fail as Light embedded himself into the investigation. Yes. This is a valid point. However, specifically the cameraman may not be the cuprit, as they would be randomly arranged.

There is some truth to that rule, *but* an author typically has much more time to think, plan, and consider options than the characters they create.
It should be possible to write a character that *at least* thinks faster and more clearly than the writer would be able to in the character's situation.

Intelligence is not quantitative. The least intelligent person I have ever known literally taught _herself_ how to read. Which seems like you'd have to be pretty smart to manage. And the smartest person in the world could easily spend hours looking for glasses that are on the top of their head, like a fool.

I’ve heard people say that but it’s not really true. Victor Frankenstein was able to build a man out of dead limbs and reanimate him over the course of two years (though he couldn’t easily replicate it without further research). And the Monster was able to teach himself French and how to read. Mary Shelley created both characters but there’s no way she could have managed to do any of those. (She knew how to speak and read but she wasn’t an autodidact.)

@@matityaloran9157 Agreed. This is another point to keep in mind.
Suppose you have a character who is a genius of chemistry. If their knowledge of chemistry is useful - let's say two or three times - across the length of a 400 page novel, the author does not need to dedicate their life to studying chemistry. They could read a few papers that seem relevant to those moments, or even reach out and ask someone who *has* dedicated their life to studying chemistry for advice or feedback.
This could even apply to a "smart character" that doesn't have any kind of expert knowledge. Just bouncing ideas off of other people could lead to ideas the author would never have thought of themselves.

@@Riff.Wraith Definitely. In fact, when Victor Frankenstein agrees to create a female companion for the Monster (though he reneges), he tells the Monster that it’s necessary for him to go to England and conduct further research because the creation of a living being isn’t something you can easily replicate. And even the creation of the Monster took Victor two years. So you can tell that a lot of what makes Victor such a smart character is study, practice and experimentation rather than him magically being a savant.

Yeah I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Well it needs to be sprinkled in within the story not just “literally everything that happened up to this point was my plan muahaha”

One of the best series that does this is usogui. It's really good you should read it if you haven't

I think Watchman did it really well, where he tells the plan at the end and the line I did it 35 minutes ago.

@@faruquekhan3353 Fantastic example.
What also makes Ozymandias a compelling example of a well-written smart character is that on top of the amount of thought and effort he demonstrates in pulling off his grand scheme, his very motivations for doing so are cogent enough for the average reader to follow and for the more astute readers to recognize what kind of dysfunctional sociopath would choose to be a superhero but then also completely disregard the value of human lives.

Breaking Bad is SUCH a good show. Walt is such a good example of a smart character too, he's highly intelligent and manipulative, but he also has fatal flaws and is actually severely lacking in many areas. And as you said the plan with Brock is simple at face value but perfectly executed and targeted to manipulate Jesse. Love that show.

@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt Best thing about Walt is that his genius isn't reflected through convoluted plans or by him just using big words. He takes precautions, keeps crucial information to himself and slowly improves his position like a real life genius would. He only reveals he has cancer to explain why he has been acting strange, he reveals Skyler cheated on him to get Marie of his back, he uses information like playing cards and you can see and appreciate what he is doing as a viewer. I was hoping we would get something practical like that for Sage in the boys but sadly nah. And I'm happy you pointed that out because when I said she was written lazily and simply stating this was your plan all along is just not satisfying I always just get shut down with "yeaaah bro but she is like, super smart. You are just a normal dude, ofc you cant understand her schemes"

@@marekb1556 Walt was a problem solver who had a skill for manipulating people
The skillset of a physicist or engineer is very different.

@@ralalbatross Also supposedly a genius chemist. Don't forget he was a scientist as well

I feel like Better Call Saul is a better example of _extremely_ well-written smart characters. Just because you're smart doesn't mean everything you do will work perfectly or that you won't have blind spots. or make mistakes, like when (warning! big spoilers follow) Jimmy needs a photocopier to doctor the Mesa Verde documents, Chuck is clearly out cold for the night so Jimmy has all the time in the world. He absolutely doesn't need to go to the nearest all-night copy-shop. He _could_ have picked a random one across town and gone there instead, but he doesn't consider it, because he doesn't think Chuck is ever going to suspect he was involved, so he just goes to the nearest place. Then later, Chuck suspects Jimmy was responsible and knows that the documents couldn't have been doctored without a photocopier. He sends his assistant to the nearest copy-shop and the clerk tells the assistant he saw Jimmy on the night in question. Jimmy then comes in and bribes the clerk to change his story and deny it later when Chuck arrives. When things don't go his way, Chuck freaks out and has a panic attack while trying to intimidate the clerk into saying he saw Jimmy. You can see that both brothers are brilliant, but flawed each in their own way. You can see exactly what their plans are and what works and what doesn't and how they adapt as they encounter curve-balls. Nothing feels magical or unrealistic.

Haha yeah it's extremely frustrating.

Deadpool is a super genius. Confirmed.

Hey, that's an interesti- terrible idea! **Scribbles some notes**

'True smart character won't play 4d chess.. they play 6d checkers instead' -some smart character, probably

Unless your Joseph Joestar, his entire gimmick is literally a joke reading manga the wrong way lol

Nice, I think you 100% nailed it.

There's one glaring problem. Your most intelligent character can only be as smart as you (the writer) in this case. No problem since most writers are geniuses yep

@@matttamal8332 no that problem is solved, as the original poster stated, with time. You (the writer) have as much time as you need to research, bounce ideas off other actual people, attempt multiple different solutions until you find the best one etc. and then you can just insert that solution into the story as if the genius character came up with it on the spot

@@CrashSableI don’t know how much you’ve written, but this problem cannot simply be solved with time.
The amount of effort you employ may help overcome some issues - but people with no expertise in a topic cannot simply read about it for a year and suddenly reproduce savant syndrome - which is usually what most “genius characters” on TV are displaying.
Zack Snyder spent *years* on his Justice League movies. And yet, he still never figured out the glaringly obvious idiocy of the aspects of Darkseid, the Anti-Matter Formula, the Boxes, etc.

@@matttamal8332There are a lot of people arguing otherwise, but it’s a psychological impossibility for a less intelligent person to convincingly portray a *more* intelligent one… It can work in the *opposite* direction, though.
The issue is that the flaw is usually only apparent to other highly intelligent people… So, you see a lot of people saying otherwise.
But no amount of time or effort will make an average person’s depiction of a “genius” seem authentic without basically giving full control of that character to someone else.
Merely observing brilliance doesn’t make it absorb into the observer. This is one of the most common misconceptions about how truly exceptional people (like savants) work.

Curse of the Black Pearl was the peak of his characterisation. I'd call him more cunning than smart but I'm just quibbling over words, I know what you're saying.

The scene where he steals a ship, making everybody leave the Interceptor to steal the Interceptor itself was f'ing brilliant.

​@@aaryanairy756How many people did he sneak aboard?

@@maryrose2676 Yeah because that is what really suspends our belief. One man stealing a big ship = belief suspended. However, people who turn into skeletons in the moonlight, totally believable. It's fantasy man, part of our duty is to suspend belief and not get hung up on the impossibilities, otherwise the movie itself is pointless because cursed treasure isn't real.

@@aaryanairy756 It was very brazen too. Even as a kid, when I first watched it, I thought it was brilliant. The only thing that bothered me about the scene, even back then, was the HMS Dauntless’ crew complement.
Specifically, why did a first rate ship-of-the-line like the Dauntless have no one aboard except a few officers and a dozen seamen? Though she was docked in Port Royal, a ship of that size, even in the early 18th century, requires a minimum crew of 350 to operate it. Optimally, it was most efficient with a maximum crew of 800 - a number that gradually increased to 850 by the advent of the Napoleonic Era.
Regardless, she was completely unguarded, and almost effectively unoccupied. No marines aboard, no maintenance crew aboard, and nothing is locked up (except the captain and officers’ quarters, the powder keg, and gun ports). I guess the only reason why I didn’t think much of it until now was because of Sid Meier’s Pirates, specifically gameplay experience.
It turns out, the smart pirates prefer small ships, or tiny ships (even as small as a war canoe). The reason: They were fast, cheap, and ubiquitous. You would never use a large ship as a pirate, unless you were a smuggler or a slaver.

Well said - it should always be based on prior, established knowledge. It becomes magic when the information is pulled "out of a hat", so to speak.

@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt
This makes me think about a book I read. I think it's classified as a thriller or something like that. The lead character is a detective, trying to solve a case involving a serial murderer. Usually, one can always spot the guilty one in this kind of story. Almost always. In this case, I scratched my head alongside the characters. When they found out who it was, I was as chocked as the detectives. But looking back at the story, one could see all the signs. They were there - I just missed them the first go around. Loved that story. Only one that managed to surprise me.

@@Elora445 what’s the name of the story?

@@JavaScript-er101
Sadly, I cannot remember the name of it (I read way too many books!). Pretty sure it's not among the books I have on my shelves right now, so it's in some box somewhere. :( So I can't go doublecheck it, either. Sorry.

I would love to see a version of this where the "smart" character in a story pulls a whole Sherlock-esque explanation, but is proven to be dramatically wrong and it turns out that they are just crazy and do this sort of rambling all the time.

Indeed
Azula still has to confront the real world, but she brings her dark intelligence along with her, manipulating people around them

She was manipulative, knows how to trick her Friends, brother and even Toph

yeah even in the final agni Kai she was still plotting which is cool

How interesting!

And then in the end she didn't lose because the writer pulled something out of their ass at the last second (that's how Ozai lost), she lost due to previously established flaws: she's a sociopath and not as much of a people person as she thought.

Really great example and walk through of it! I think you're 100% right and it shows how well written Tony is compared to some of the characters I spoke about in this.
Thank you! Best of luck with your writing.

@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt there the time tony and the hulk hung out in avengers. they are compare notes and the entire time tony is testing him. A sign of how tony is always looking for answers to question in his mind even in the middle of a conversation. his mind is always active.

Lol interesting idea for a character. I can see that working well but it'd be tricky to pull off (reality bending is always difficult to write around).

Ooo that's sounds so fun! It kinda makes me think of Domino from Deadpool, and how her superpower basically does the same - warps reality so that she can do really cool stuff or that her plans always seem to work because 'luck'
In order for it to be fair you limit the character's control over the ability - like they're either a novice at controlling it or it's something completely beyond their control. You can also build tension by having it only work occasionally - like, sometimes their plans fail and they have to fall back on a plan b or c. They can be so used to this that they seem to have a contingency plan for everything, which ends up being part of their superpower because eventually they know their luck will kick in and something will work (as long as they and they're allies don't die first). Good luck, and have fun 😃!

@@tokujinsicura2190 The Marvel comics character "Longshot" had luck power, but it only worked if his motives were pure, and it didn't warp reality so much, it only influenced the outcome of some action that he was taking (e.g. "I have to throw this dagger at the huge complicated machine, to save the orphanage" => it hits the one vulnerable spot)

Ooh also I almost forgot: his luck power had repercussions - it would cause bad luck to him or someone he loved at a later date or time

Not exactly the same but remind me of King from One Punch Man. He's a top tier hero from a world that desparetly needs them yet in reality lucked out from one chance encounter where another hero beat a larger threat and he just happened to be there to take credit. From then on, the gag is that everything he does to get away from conflict is seen by other characters as a next level 3D chess move and him being afraid is also used as a gag. He's so frightened that he has a stone cold face and shivers but for other characters, combined with hi reputation, is contrasted as a a powerful man capable of such danger that his very core is rattling and barely keeping his power in check, but in fact is just figety

This sounds great! I've never heard of it before but I'll have to look it up.

That is the best detective show was amazing

It's also a show that tests audience deductive ability/observational skills by sneaking in pineapples or imagery thereof in nearly every episode.

​@@Bonovasitch"Almost every"? Are you telling me there were episodes where you couldn't find the pineapple?

yep Psych is unironically a better detective show that BBC Sherlock
my favourite episode will be that haunted solority girl house episode

And then the sequel came out and dropped the smart writing

@@Goblinhandler But it is still a decent movie :-)

that's the closer look's "how to write a plot twist" video iirc

Glass Onion's great gimmick was that they literally show you everything happening on the screen in the first half, but you just don't notice until the second half. Hell, Blanc literally calls Helen by her name in the first half, but you don't necessarily notice​@@Goblinhandler

@@andrewdunn8778 Glass Onion had huge parts of protagonist's world hidden from the view. After seeing the first movie it felt like we've been cheated. It's like "he had an evil twin all along" trope all over again.

Yeah agreed, I think a lot of writers are for some reason afraid to show this? Or maybe they want their characters to be so brilliant and perfect they could never possibly fail.

Isn't that how the average episode of House MD plays out?

Heck, even tech support personnel first ask the customer if their cable is connected. Can come off as condescending and too Captain Obvious, but people forget stuff like that all the time. It's good practice to rule out the simplest solutions first and then move on to more complex ones.

@@Trazynn The Avatar: The Last Airbender episode King of Omashu did that when Aang starts with the most obvious solution each time and when it doesn’t work he starts to think outside of the box and figure out how to solve the problems

@@handanyldzhan9232 In the show The IT Crowd, one of the characters’ catchphrases is “have you tried turning it off then on?”

Yeah, it's just a shame that he kind of peaked there. Kishimoto really forgot about the rest of the cast in Shippuden (I know he gets a brief moment against Hidan as well).

Shikamaru?
That guy chased Sasuke into the woods to convince him to get back to the Leaf.
Then the team was stalked by the bad guys who started defeating them one by one
Then genius Shikamaru sat down and deduced they needed to create a diversion in order to survive. He sits down and thinks really hard for a moment and finally looks a f-ing NARUTO and tells him dead serious "ok. It has to be me. There's just no other safe way to make a false trail"
And Naruto "master of shadow clone jutsu" Uzumaki is all like "wow. Yeah. So brave Shikamaru. Give them hell"

@@androkguz You're talking about story writing, while I'm talking about character writing. Naruto has to catch up to Sasuke for us to see a battle showdown between two of the major character of the series. It was a conscious choice from the author, said by Shikamaru.

@@KPD_KPD "it was a conscious choice by the author, said by Shikamaru"
What? That sentence makes it seem as if Shikamaru was the author
How are you differentiating character writing from story writing here? Shikamaru could have been snagged by the bad guy to achieve the same 1v1 scenario or Naruto could have ran ahead without waiting for his friends.
But they decided to make it a moment of character agency to be stupid.
And it's not at all the first time or the last time Shikamaru is a drooling idiot while the music and scene for "Gigachad with 10k IQ" is playing
The moron couldn't even think of simple ways to break the symetry of his own shadow jutsu by wearing his Kunai pack in a different place or wearing an extra one on a place most ninja don't so you can throw a knife at your opponent without them throwing one back
Even without tools he could strangle any trapped enemy whose arms are shorter

@@androkguz The same way why Tsunade chooses to send some weak genin instead of the killing machine Anbu. Does that mean Tsunade is stupid? Or the author wanted to show us some spectacle by sending characters that we know?
Also yes you can always create the most logical scenarios out of everything, but can you make it interesting? Because at the end of the day, it's the only thing that matter.

And I think the story SHOULD elevate the audience instead of the characters. Its much more enjoyable to the readers when they are the ones being elevated. And when a character is prioritized instead, the only thing being elevated is the author's ego.

Good point! I do think that characters can be written intelligently while still showing all their cards though. The one I was thinking of when first starting this video was Smiley from Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy. That character showed intelligence through realizing his mistakes and stating complex plans that he would draw out for other characters.

Mark Whatney in The Martian is really smart, especially in the book, but we're all brought along for the ride. A name for that type of story is "competency porn", and I enjoy those a lot.

@@galfisk Terrible name.

Yeah agreed. It's a shame to see some of the tropes in modern media, I feel like the general quality of movies and TV shows has declined.

Subverting expectations is probably the worst trope that exists as if a gotcha is all the story should be about it ruins tension and payoffs

The problem with the retroactive genius is their plans are really stupid if you think about. You need about 30 different things to go right just for your plan to succeed. A real smart person wouldn't bet their house on so many variables. A smart person would recognize that it's a stupid bet, and try to make a plan with as little variable as possible.

Storywriters recently I've had a problem where they now view twists more than actual good story
they believe that as long as the movie has some unexpected mind blowing twist at the end people will remember that mind blowing twist and forgive or forget the lazy writing of 95% of the story
The retroactive genius the assumed dead character returning the surprise villain A hero becomes a villain A villain becomes a hero
All of those twists were once Done very well and genuinely surprised audiences and left a lasting impact on audiences
but now they're done to death Which leads to them not really catching audiences off guard anymore
Kate Disney where the first few times they get a surprise it was genuinely surprising at least to me I didn't see it coming
but then they kept doing it over and over and over again In the same way
so instead of it being a surprise the audience just notices that the story doesn't have a obvious villain for the hero to bounce off of so they know the surprise villain is coming and usually figured it out by the end
And oftentimes these twists come at great expense to the story For example the twist villain more often than not requires the story to lack In obvious level so there is no antagonist opposing the hero for two thirds of the story which leads to drastically decreased
And a twist villain can never be as well developed as a bill in whose been in the story for most of it The twist bailing will inherently have no time to develop as a villain but there are only defining trait will be that they were a twist villain

Exactly ! Thanks for putting it in words.

If Holmes was smart, he would ask Watson about himself, thus acquiring the information AND encouraging Watson to think favorably of Holmes.
But Holmes would rather be an arrogant jerk by asserting superiority, which is itself a stupid thing to do. He's just fortunate that's Watson's peculiar quirk is his willingness to be treated like a half-wit sidekick.

But intelligence doesn't mean you're not a jerk. Why should he care what watson thinks of him. We all can be victims of our ego. ​@@stevenscott2136

People don't learn to become better thinkers after they watch shows like the Boys season 4 or Sherlock. They learn to become bigger a**holes.

​@@stevenscott2136 he does it for practice.
If he asks, he doesn't practice properly.
Also, he's not amazing with people.
Granted, in the books he deducts AND listen to the people

​@user-gb7ji6xy5d honestly, I couldn't even finish The Boys Season 1 and I thought Sherlock was good until I realized just how stupid it was.

Yeah 100%, it's the advantage you have as a writer vs your characters.

I think those are the exposition people right?

@motor4X4kombat They show up a lot in sitcoms, like "Big Bang Theory" and kids' shows (hence why it caused me headaches when I was a kid)

I mean there really are people like that, the difference being that the real life encyclopedias just spew random facts rather than ones relevant to the story.

@@saawysorenson4585 hey....!!! that's me...!

@@lastmanstanding5423 :))

I haven't seen Better Call Saul, but Breaking Bad is such a brilliant show that I'm not surprised at all.

With Saul a lot of his victories are based on convenience to just keep the plot going, which is understandable but still unrealistic

@@ThePowat That's weaselly worded. What do you mean by "a lot" of his victories? I'd say of the scams and schemes we see Saul run in the show, at least half or more of them show him putting in work early on that pays off later, demonstrating his intelligence during the scheme. Certainly all the biggest ones, whether it's in the "chicanery" scene (he planted the phone), or their massive scheme against Howard show definite planning and coordination in advance.
Even in some sequences where Jimmy doesn't have time to plan out a scheme they usually end up demonstrating his ability to convince and cajole others to his desired ends by playing to their ego or personality, like in the 2nd episode when he manages to prevent the deaths of those other scammers. That's not convenience, but the character using their ability to read other people and manipulate them.
What are some examples that show unnecessary convenience in Saul/Jimmy's benefit that are used to get the plot going that you're thinking of?

​@@MidlifeCrisisJoe Not that guy but Jimmy definitely has some plot magic on his side sometimes.
One of the examples I'd give is Jimmy almost getting caught by Howard during his scheme against him on multiple occasions, like when he planted the drugs in Howard's locker but then Howard came in so he had to hide. Howard conveniently didn't notice Jimmy was the only other person in the room with them and most likely the person who planted the drugs because Jimmy put a rag over his face and sat in the corner.
Another example is when Jimmy stole Howard's car and went to return it, but notices someone else took the spot. It took Howard straight up forgetting where his car was parked and Jimmy moving a sign for him to get away with that one.
I'd like to add that convenient scenes like this are merely meant to add tension and show off Jimmy's quick thinking because it wouldn't be fun to watch if his schemes went off without a hitch.

@@Plum1300 OK I can kind of see what you mean there, but in the grand scheme, those very trivial complicating moments are incredibly minor. To the point that I wouldn't say that his schemes ever really rely on convenience.
Really, a lot of those little moments seem to be about adding bits of tension and drama that if anything, make the scheme working come off as more believable to me, not less. Because if there weren't any complications it'd feel like he was a super lucky super genius. Or like you said, it wouldn't be any fun to watch is his schemes went off without a hitch.
Sort of feels like there's a bit of an unfair standard here with certain people maybe? You and myself maybe see those little tension points as adding realism and drama, but other people seem to think a plan never needs to encounter an error or problem and if it does and the problem is resolved then it's "convenient" to them?

Tyrion stopped being intelligent when the writers ran out of source material.

Hahahaha 1000%, those scenes where Tyrion is doing military planning made him look like an absolute fool, because he ignored the first rule of any game: stop thinking about your plan, and think about what your opponent is planning.

No problem! Yeah it really bugged me as well lol.

I think it would've been ok if the guy who got to be president was a backup plan. So it's not that everything was exactly the one way she designed it, but there were many ways she could've won

I'm giving the writers the benefit of the doubt here.
Remember. These characters are subversions of their Marvel and DC counterparts.
If Sister Sage is a subversion of Iron Heart then we can assume she isn't intelligent the same way as Iron Heart.
I believe she is a con artist. She is the smartest person in the room but that means she can outsmart Homelander when something happens and do the mental gymnastics to explain to him why she is correct.
It's Sophistry.
Remember. Sages are con artists who pretend to do magic.

I'm hoping she's actually trying to take down Voight and Homelander by showing the US what total rule by supes would be like.
BTW: We're assuming Sage did all of this on purpose. Who's to say that she isn't lying and had to scramble on the backend to get plan C or D to work even though she's claiming her one and only plan is working perfectly?

@@SomeUniqueHandle i think you are mistaken in what we are assuming.
I am assuming she never had a plan, curve balls or not.
The only thing we see her clearly set up is getting Starlight to beat up Firecracker and even that seems petty and not thought out completely.
She lit a fuse there but couldn't have predicted the fallout, especially Butcher ripping apart dude in the trailer.
Now, the writers can still fix it. They can reveal that she saw what happens via cameras or whatever after Butcher did that she started taking and bugging him.
Maybe she even had access to a telepath with persuasive abilities.
All of these are maybes that I'm giving the writers for free. They've got some 'splaining to do and I can't do all the heavy lifting for them while they mash their toys together.

I know the show is very popular but I've never got round to watching it.

Tbf, on early episodes, it's evident the writers and the actor haven't found the way to portray the character.

@@hafirenggayuda That's fair enough, that's quite common with a lot of shows.

@@hafirenggayuda it definitely found its footing the more time went on

One of my favourite aspects of Jane is his being an asshole not because he is one but in part of his investigating. Such as people thinking he’s being rude not looking at them when he talks but is actually observing things in the room. Or when he actively insults or annoys somebody not because he wants to, but because he’s trying to get them to reveal something about themselves which would show by making them angry or upset.

I agree with everything you said. Heist movies are a lot of fun for playing around with audience expectations and getting a chance to show off some smart writing. Sadly they seem to have somewhat fallen out of fashion, I can't think of many recent heist movies.

Wow, that's actually an awesome insight. At the end of the day, writing a smart character is for narrative excellence, not to have a smart character and have everyone say, wow, that writer made really smart decisions with that character. Characters are characters, they're are contrived for purpose and point. You're not supposed to actually view their decisions through realistic lenses but to make their decisions fit with the story.

I mean, not really, Doyle just like writing historical novels more, not that he is tired of Holmes bc of smartness or anything. And on the front, Holmes did compliment Watson got smt almost right, and then Holmes himself is proven wrong at smt when the Doctor Mortimer be like "nah that cane ain't parting gift, it is wedding gift" and Holmes be like "Lol, we are close but still wrong" so not like Holmes is always right.

@@12arkich28 that was literally the point of my description.
Maybe it was inaccurate about Doyle, but the whole “not like holmes is always right” was literally the point of why he’s right frequently in stories

did they do this during the tv movies in the 70's. Sherlock would challenge watson about something and then watson will toss his theory and then sherlock would correct him. or agreed but add something to his observation that watson had miss.

Good take, I completely agree.

@bobbyharrop8817 This. It's like setting yourself up for failure to have a character come up with a third act catch-all. 1)You're much more likely to fail. Making sure all the details line up from beginning to end is a pitfall. 2) You rob the whole story of agency, or, as it's said, you hand the characters the script. 3) There is no such thing as a catch-all. Only a catch-most. It leaves room for further improvement and imagination, both during and after the show or movie or book.

Thanks very much! A few people have been saying Elementary is really good but I haven't watched it myself.

I totally agree❤ I love elementary

This is extremely interesting thank you for sharing. I find it really fascinating how stories can reflect the cultural beliefs and norms of the time period, but I'm sadly not as well read on history as I'd like to be. I do agree that Sherlock's main ability should be / seems to be his hyper observance, but I'll have to find some time to read the original books.

​@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt started reading them recently, at one point I had a "wait, what the hell? Are there any clues to that?" Yes, there were, maybe if I read it in one sitting I'd notice, but I did not, even tho they were quite in my face on the second read through.

​@@minedantaken1684this multi layered nature is the sign of truly well written storytelling. you see it in most of the best fiction, and even more so in the best scifi and fantasy.
just a few examples of stories with this property include the hobbit snd the lord of the rings by j.r.r. tolkien, the belgarion and sparhawk novels of david eddings, most of the adult novels of robert a heinlein, and many others. it is why doing multiple drafts matters. i remember heinlein saying that one of his novels was not published until he finished the 17th draft.

Phrenology hasn't actually been debunked.

His power is ADHD

Thanks! That's a great quote lol I'll remember that.

The latter is called cynicism, actually.

@@suezcontours6653 Sage is realistically smart? The person that can predict how every single person that is directly or indirectly attached to her plan will act over the course of months is realistically smart? No. It's not possible. It's literally future telling at that point.
Iron Man, on the other hand, just applies science to things. He's exaggeratedly smart. But not to the point of impossibility. His technology is more than likely less than 100 years ahead of our current tech.

@@darkdudironaji She's more realistic than Tony Stark

@@suezcontours6653 She is not, and it's not even close. Creating and improving upon technology is something humans have been doing since the beginning. That's what Tony does. Sage knows exactly who's going to kill who, what people are going to say and when they're going to say it. She even had to know that she would be shot in the head at the party ahead of time and that Victoria would step up and say she'll be the one to take care of things. And, again, she would have had to know all of this months before any of it had happened. Because she didn't change her plan at all. It was all "according to plan."

Is there an English translation?

@@howdoyoudo5949
I'm sorry to say that it seems the Amanvermez Avni stories are not translated into english yet. I only could find an english analysis of the stories in terms of politics and stuff, and found a short and somehow a bit misleading writing introducing the Amanvermez Avni canon.

Love this metaphor! I'm actually a software developer myself so I really should have thought of this, but I think the analog of bug fixing works perfectly here.

It’s funny because the book/magazine version is much more prone towards trial and error,and a lot of his leaps of logic end up being wrong because exactly that, it could be a lot of problems causing a bug

It’s funny because the book/magazine version is much more prone towards trial and error,and a lot of his leaps of logic end up being wrong because exactly that, it could be a lot of problems causing a bug

But that's the thing, I stepped in to help a group of experienced people who had spent two weeks and were failing.
I gathered two pieces of data and then I just *knew* what the problem was. Couldn't explain it.
I've always been this way. Some part of my brain is smarter than my surface personality. And it's just presents answers to me.
It is a real problem when they want me to prove how I got the answer. And I can usually work the answer out but it might take me a few days or even a week.

@@macmcleod1188 Intuition is a real thing based on prior experiences and hunches, however, it is not always correct. It is still just educated guesses.

another example would be the fact that he came up with the scout formation for expeditions. we don’t actively see him come up with it exactly because it happens before the show begins but we do see the details of the formation and it being used in multiple scenes of the show. also showcases him not placing his entire faith/relying in the brute strength of the corps since the entire formation strat is to avoid the titans and change course as they go

🎉🎉🎉🎉

I always loved AoT's plans. The plans are smart but believable. I hate shows that have characters make long winded plans that can be derailed at any time if literally anything goes even slightly differently.
In AoT Season 3 part 2 there were multiple cool displays of realistic intelligence. Zeke's opening move to seal the wall with the boulder to cut off the horse's movements. Zeke's plan was to restrict the enemy movement while showering them with rocks from an untouchable distance. That's literally the entire plan. There was no 4d mind chess mind games or dramatic twists and turns.
Erwin's first observation was that if the horses were blocked off then they could be starved out. Erwin decided the battle needed to be won today and that a siege would be a losing proposition. However, Erwin failed to account for the unknown. He lost nearly all of his veteran troops when he underestimated/didn't consider the Beast Titan's throwing power.
However despite his initial failure Erwin came up with a plan to make a sacrifice to distract the Beast Titan. And now it's Zeke's turn to make a mistake. He got too confident in his position. He realized he could kill nearly all of the scouts, but failed to even consider that just 1 scout (Levi) could be meaningful. Which ties into Zeke's larger story. Zeke's whole character was about how Zeke overlooked the little things. He thought it was all a sad and meaningless blur that needed to put out of it's misery. He never considered that life of a single person could mean something. It never occurred to him to notice how nice the weather was. And that's why he lost to Levi.
Both Zeke and Erwin were strategists known for their analytical skills. But both of them were written to make mistakes and suffer consequences because of it. They were allowed to be smart while not superhumanly anticipating all possible outcomes. The story really benefited from that.

Armin is smarter

I agree that Scofield in season 1 (possibly 2) of Prison Break is a relatively well-written smart guy, but the less said about seasons 3, 4 - and beyond - the better.
The way his magical problem-solving abilities seem to have equally magically rubbed off on people who are supposed to be much less intelligent than him, like Lincoln, Sucre and even Bellick, is simply ridiculous.

I sadly haven't seen any southpark, other than the episode about world of warcraft.

​@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt
You have to immediately watch Scott Tenerman Must Die!
It's Primal Fear level impressive, even as a stand-alone episode with no previous context for the characters.

@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt series 5-9 is well worth watching. As good as anything.

Well Matt Stone and Trey Parker are actually smart and humble enough to admit when they’re wrong (which they’ve done on political topics). You’ll never see someone like Kripke resorting to that level of humility. All he really does is make sure the show blasts one side of the political spectrum like a furnace, throw in a random sexual assault scene when things get monotonous, and ensure that the women are allowed to be shitty because they’re traumatized while the men should be on their knees begging for forgiveness. Rinse and repeat.

Only the third act of that episode though... I wouldn't say buying someone's pubes is a particularly good example of intelligence...

It was a massive eye roll moment for me.

Plus the whole "I was using A-Train to leak information that was useful to us" angle falls flat when A-Train spends most of the time actually helping the Boys out and nearly derailing their entire dinner at Tec-Knights mansion.

I wasn’t sure if it was lazy writing or speaks to the Boys theme, which is that supes are horrible people, and showing up afterwards claiming credit is right in tune with what a supe would do.

​@@BaronnaxHow did the Boys learn about the assassination plot against Singer?

@@scy3591 Didn't they just kinda assume it was gonna happen from the first episode of the season?

Just for fun haha

Somebody else commented about the one where he fails at deductions for the same scene I discussed, I watched it and it was great!

Oh my God 😂 I went and watched that and it slayyeddd me! That was perfect, thanks for the tip.

Well said. And I LOVE fight club, I could rewatch it endlessly.

@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt Same, it's a perfect example of why I try to avoid spoilers. Knowing the twist basically turns your first viewing into a second.

Same for "Memento". Once you know the plot you immediately want to watch it again with the knowledge you gained through the movie. In literature, "Master and Margarita" by Mikhail Bulgakov is a good example. Once you know the master plan of some of the protagonists (no spoilers which), you instantly want to read the story again and see the connections that you missed.

@@berlineczka interesting, I've never heard of that story before. Is an audiobook available for it?

@@MrEffectfilms I don't know. But you can for sure google that. It is a classic novel, well known in several countries.

Agreed, because they don't feel like real people then.

I haven't properly watched Saw, but the thing that always bugged me based off the trap videos is how some traps are much easier than others lol. It feels unfair.

​@@MediaRetrospective-sb2ptto be fair, I don't think the game designers are set on making an enjoyable experience for the players

@@NonJohns Lol fair point.

@@MediaRetrospective-sb2ptit’s understandable that you have that opinion since you haven’t properly seen the film series but that’s actually intentional. There are various characters aside from the original creator John Kramer who make the traps. Some of them agree with Kramer’s moral philosophy and therefore make the traps easier than others. But one of the characters doesn’t agree with Kramer’s moral philosophy. So the traps they design are significantly harder than the others. The victims of those traps aren’t meant to survive

@@CoOlKyUbI96 Aah I see that's interesting thanks - that does explain a lot then.

I haven't seen it but I agree, it can be done well so long as you show exactly that, the villain actively present throughout and taking action. Unfortunately most of the time I've seen it, it hasn't been done well.

@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt True. Most of the time, it’s like Humpty Alexander Dumpty in the first Puss in Boots movie where he says “I was always there” and there’s a flashback to him at every major point in the movie influencing events from behind the scenes but after you start thinking about it you realize that doesn’t really make sense

​@@matityaloran9157Except in Humptys case, I think that was intended as a gag.

@@DoomguyIsGrinningAtYou. Fair

I'd still say it's clever in the context of the story, since the GOT world is different to our own.

And he does it more swiftly in books. In the show they exaggerate it for attempting cheap comedy. But if we are talking about Game of Thrones then there will be many many examples of smart characters actually being smart.

@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt
Even if it was "successfully used" in the GOT universe, it is still smart to use the correct "tried and true" strategy for the situation. "Smart" doesn't have to be original or creative.

​@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt- Tyrion's slide into stupidity is one of the main tells that the writers were no longer using Martin's books to plot the show. His idea to send John Snow with a dragon to go get a zombie to prove to his sister they exist is so incredibly stupid. He also must have known that stingers have been used to try and kill dragons for hundreds of years and warned Dani about them. Or just made a plan to fly all three dragons super high to come straight down on King's landing behind the weapons and take our Cersi instead of trying to convince her of anything. It was all so obvious that dragons are way overpowered and the writers needed to nerf them to keep any semblance of stakes.
I love House of Dragons and think the writing is in general smarter than the last GoT seasons but they still face the same issues with dragons being OP. I hope that some character in the show tries another method to kill the dragons other than shooting toothpicks or using a bigger dragon. Poisoning their food or throwing acid on them or building a trap to bury them would all be better than what they've done so far.
Sorry for rambling, I still get mad whenever somebody talks about Tyrion being so smart.

Thank you very much! I'm glad you enjoyed it and I'll do my best to keep going!

Great observations and I completely agree. I think weak writers are afraid to give their characters any "losses", but ironically it just makes their characters more shallow and less grounded.

@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt That because they don't understand or develop the characters and their limitation to begin with.
One of my favorite Sherlock Holmes is played by Ian Richardson. (Available on Amazon Prime), In The Hound of Baskerville, Holmes deduced that Stapleton sister is actually his wife. When she asked how do he know? Holmes stated that there's a white mark on her finger, which suggest a ring. And he spot their behaviors and suspect they are not sibling. And also, he said that marriage, like death, are recorded, so he was able to find that out during the investigation. That's the way the character work. His observations on little details, are just small clues to lead up to big clue. The watch scene that BBC Sherlock adapted, had extra etchings of pawn shops. That's how he was sure the owner is often in poverty.
Peter Falk who played Colombo said that the main reason (not counting meta aspect of the writer) why Colombo keep triumph over the villain is due to the fact villains only need to make one mistake while Colombo can afford to make more.
There is always a reason to the madness and good writers will find that reason.
Hannibal Lector in Silence of the Lamb is a stellar example of this. In the book, one of my all time favorite section, is how Crawford, the old FBI agent, figured Lector mind game with ease. He knew how Lector was lying, how Lector was guessing and demystifying the doctor intelligence. It did not make it to the movie, for dramatic reasons, but Crawford equal understanding of Lector ability was there in the background. The sequels are terrible and never reach back the heights that Silence set, because Lector was no longer portrayed as a human, but was hyped up as this supergenius monster who can get away with anything.

It's certainly interesting to hear, a lot of you guys have been sharing information about the original books in the comments and I feel like I'm building up a decent picture of them now. Hopefully one day I'll get round to reading them myself.

The War was Afghanistan too, some things do not change.

​@@yugytommWar, war never changes but people do

​@ondururagittandeska2004 as an old saying goes, the stage stays the same, it's only the actors that change. Still the same old story

I looked it up because it sounded good from your comment, but it looks like it's a little old now - do you think it'd hold up still?

@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt I’d say if you’re okay with watching something like Jaws or Alien, it should be fine.

The first Tremors movie definitely holds up as a light horror comedy. All practical effects IIRC, and it showcases multiple good decisions by the average intelligence human characters. The sequels are skippable as they get progressively campier, and start using bad CGI.

@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt The script is tight, the scares are well made, the characters are relatable, and it is a very fun experience overall. It is also a low budget monster movie, so take this factor into consideration.
There aren't tremendous displays of intelligence, but the characters aren't dumb (except one kid, but he's written intentionally that way), and they have their moments of brilliance. Funnily enough, the most intelligent character is a geologist, to whom, and to her frustration, the rest of the characters constantly ask questions about the monsters that she cannot answer, because, well, she is a geologist.

​@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt Tremors absolutely holds up. The plot never relies on characters doing something stupid to advance the plot. They don't do the right thing every time (because who does?) But you never feel like they aren't trying their best to figure out how to solve problems they face.

Yeah very true - Code Geass is definitely an example of another "smart" character not written very well. I actually forgot about that since it's been a while since I watched it.

I think Xanatos fro. gargoyles is one of the best examples of a smart character.
He had ridiculous plans, but they were always ridiculous because he'd always come out on top.
The best anyone else could hope for was to minimise his victory, which he accounted for once he knew people realised he always wins to set up situations where the outcome he really wanted seemed less advantageous(but really set up another plan or gave him much more than they thought).
His plans weren't perfect, but you can see how every outcome always plays to his advantage, which is what made him such a good villain. The only time other people got an advantage over him was when they did something he couldn't plan for, and that only worked until he could predict it.

Lelouch is way better than Light, Light literally survives off plot armor.

Death note is not a very good example of really smart characters. Light made so many mistakes, so his hubris allowed L to target him very quickly. Revealed his abilities at first confrontation, revealed he has ties to police limiting the suspects to a couple of hundreds from literal millions etc. L is even worse, his gamble with TV trick was assuming that Light can kill instantly without preparation, is arrogant enough to follow the bait and kill not a criminal right away etc. He could not know that. So, if Light had not done a stupid thing L would fail publicly and that is it, the end. There is no way to prove Kira is even real. And by the way it is impossible to prepare death row criminal sentenced to be executed on that day secretly as death row inmates wait several years for the execution. How many laws were needed to be broken for that trick to happen? Author pulled the solutions out of their arse.
So, both L and Light have no patience, are prone to prefer instant gratification even if it is going to be very risky to them. Typical teenagers, not real geniuses.

@@dmitriy9053
Yes
But there are Rules to the Universe laid out, even fanstastical. But Light is smart character. His complex is the downfall but he bested L and ruled for 5 years, working within Police circle as one of them. Tricked God of Death to do hia bidding, manipulated and used people a lot of times. He was a cold hearted bitch, without compassion like even Walt has for his family and Jesse over anything. Gus lost that way too, being emotional.
Light only lost because Mikami slipped and made Light lose as well.

I haven't seen House but that sounds like a good way to do it. In the BBC Sherlock at least, you don't really see him being "wrong" and figuring things out.

I highly suggest house up to season 5. It's much better at using the scientific process. ​@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt

@@TiberiusX Thanks, added to the to watch list!

House isn't unwatchable bad like Sherlock imo, but it has the problem more often that not. With House though it felt like the writers were trying but had to fall back on it to keep up with the content chern, whereas Sherlock learnt all the wrong lessons from it.

When done well they're an absolute pleasure to read / watch. But they usually aren't sadly.

​@@MediaRetrospective-sb2ptDo u have any examples for well written characters?

@@dirantosdelgado4749 most of the characters from kaiji ultimate survivor

@@dirantosdelgado4749 Other than the 2 I mentioned in this video; Norm from Fallout, Darrow from Red Rising; Ender from Ender's Game; the 2 investigators from I-Robot (I forgot their names); L from Death Note (borderline, it's been a while since I watched the anime). Those are the ones who come to mind off the top of my head.

@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt Del Spooner and Dr. Susan Calvin. They were the characters from the I’Robot movie. That said, in the book I’Robot by Isaac Asimov, almost every major character at some point comes across as intelligent due to coming up with an explanation for how the Three Laws of Robotics caused the specific strange behaviour currently being observed. And that makes sense since, in the book, they’re scientists trying to make sure the Robots don’t go wrong and as such it wouldn’t work if they couldn’t analyze robot behaviour in relation to the Three Laws

Yeah, this video acknowleges that Sage lies to Homelander, but completely fails to consider that she's lying to Homelander in the final scene.
It didn't go perfectly according to plan, but it went close enough, and she's taking credit because why wouldn't you?

Thank you! I felt like I was going crazy because I don't remember Sage ever making it seem as though she literally planned every action. She took advantage of situations and knew how to adapt lightning fast based on pivotal information or her understanding of the human psyche. She's not written as an omniscient hero and its clear some of her plans fall through. She just made sure the overarching goal was reached and in the end that's all that matters.

Yeah, nobody seemed as if they were able to kill her, an Butcher only could because he took advantage of a completely undocumented effect of an experimental drug. Considering Sage seemed to get her intelligence from reading, there is no way she could have forseen somebody in opposition of her being able to kill Neumann.

Something I fail to understand is where the footage of Singer comes from. Why does she have it, how did anyone film it

@@HeyLoiss The Shapeshifter, apparently. Although, they died before being able to leave the bunker...

Lol yeah it's a bit of a cheap way to try and show intelligence, or I guess to try and show that someone is cultured?

Hey man really appreciate your view and comment. I think there's a very common misconception of intelligence where people perceive it as a binary - you're either smart or not, you're either successful or not. But the reality is that intelligence is not only a scale, it's multi faceted across different types of intelligence. And intelligence alone is not a predictor of one's success - it's a combination of their personality, connections, background and even luck as well.

Regarding Sage: You could be right, but I'm not entirely convinced. The Boys's satire is almost always extremely on the nose, while Sage's "master plan" reveal last episode really just felt like lazy writing. Like if another character had made a snarky comment of how BS her smarts were or something I might've considered it a part of The Boys's satire - or at least it would show some self-awareness of it, which is better than what we got - but it didn't really come off that way imo.
And yeah agreed on intelligence. I'm a bit over average intelligent myself (maybe top 10 %) while my brother is more like top 0.01 or maybe even 0.001 % (I know intelligence isn't as arbitrary as that, but it's still a *mostly* honest demonstrative way of putting it), and what you're saying resonates from what I've seen of my brother, and, to some lesser degree, myself. I stopped nurturing my intelligence for over a decade when I suffered from depression, so I'm literally a living proof that smart people can easily turn into fools given the wrong circumstances.

Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it, I do like branching out with the topics to cover different things.

Well, he still makes some assumptions that fall into the "magical" intelligence trope, but by making him constantly get things wrong and adapting, he feels like a very intelligent character and not a magical guy

I completely agree with what you said here.

Well put I completely agree. And I also dislike the modern trend of making supposedly intelligent characters also very arrogant and edgy. Sage's motivation in S4 for not doing "good" felt immature and unconvincing.

​@@MediaRetrospective-sb2ptYeah, exactly! I hate the tropes of making smart characters assholes for no reason. Yeah some smart people can get a bit arrogant but a lot of the smartest people I've ever met are the kindest, most empathetic people I know. If anything I'd almost say on average smarter people have more of a capacity to understand things from other people's points of view and be considerate of others

Like Patrick from spongebob??

That's pretty cool, I've never played those games but I have a friend who's into the Phoenix Wright games - possibly the same series?

@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt yeah. The series as a whole is called Ace Attorney, since Phoenix doesn’t star in all of them

I saw this old series in NatGeo of Sherlock Holmes, i fid it to be the best of all Sherlock

Hmm good catch! I actually missed this but you're right, more evidence the writers didn't put much thought into her character and thought the final episode dialogue would somehow be enough!

@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt sorry, I’m moving my original comment in real time. I suggest you delete this comment because it won’t make sense. Sorry

Thanks glad you enjoyed the video! It's an interesting point but I do think you're right that the age of digital streaming has contributed to lower quality movies and shows just being pumped out to fill content.

Ooft don't even get me started on Riri, a truly awful forced character. I hope they don't bring her back, it's an insult to Tony Stark if you ask me.

Lol I love how you morons who think you're smart, group intelligent people with your own viewed characteristics.
Project more dude holy shit.

Thank you, appreciate it!
With Aizen I can more see where you're coming from, because as you said he does possess magical abilities that help him a lot. Of course his zanpakto is so absurdly powerful that it allows him to "cheat" when manipulating people.
But for Sage, even though it's technically a "superpower" in the context of The Boys, her intelligence should still be grounded in the logical idea of cause and effect. Because the deductive and information gathering process still applies to her, even if she is able to "process" that information better than a normal person. This also applies to Aizen, but as I said I more see where you're coming from with him.
Also my biggest problem with Sage is that even if it is magic or an ability, at least to me it still comes across as lazy writing with how little screen time she gets and how little action she takes vs what she's claiming credit for, and her character feels fairly boring and unconvincing. At least Aizen is charismatic and entertaining!

@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt I'd also point out that Bleach is a series with very little exposition that is outside conversation, so we can't really rely on Aizen for information since he's always trying to manipulate someone whenever he's on screen.

Thanks! I'll probably do separate videos on Aizen and the TYBW arc in the future.

@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt Aizen's plan with the Soul King was pretty uncomplicated, Hell according to Ichibei it was doomed to fail anyways.
With Ichigo, I find it funny how Everything But The Rain actually showed the context for Aizen's plan with him, specifically that it's pretty much a side hobby if anything. He was accidentially responsible for how Ichigo turned out, and decided to basically just monitor him from there. I find it funny that the very beginning of Aizen's 'big plan with Ichigo' was a setback to his main plan. Then of course there's no way he got Grimmjow to do what he did unless it was all psychological manipulation, though I could believe that he planned Ulquiorra's battles since Ulquiorra is basically a non-mechanica robot in how he acted for most of the series he was in.

@@HOLDENPOPE Funnily enough, I'm actually working on a video about Aizen specifically right now which you may find interesting when it comes out.

Thank you! Yeah I agree with you completely, I feel it's a very modern trend to show that intelligent people must also be nihilistic and jaded, right down to as you said psychopathic and cruel. I think this is part of a broader trend of cynicism affecting our stories. I want to make a video about it, but I need some time to gather my thoughts.

@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt I look forward to that video!! Thanks for letting me know 😄

Very likely in some cases lol.

I can appreciate criticisms of an authors thought process and motives, even their life decisions. Simply out and out insulting people because of a story is scummy. No offense.

Yes.

That's pretty interesting the show more closely adapted the original books than I realised. I'll have to find some time to read the books to compare, I'm mostly curious if the deductions are more grounded in the books.

@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt Some of the deductions are far more grounded. For instance, in the short story Five Orange Pips, Holmes deduces that a murder was committed by the KuKlux Klan from the killer having engraved the letters KKK into the ground (at the time, the Klan wasn’t widely known outside of America). And in the short story a Case of Mistaken Identity, Holmes suspects (but doesn’t say) that his clients disappeared boyfriend is actually her (very young) stepfather in disguise so he asks her to give him some of her boyfriend’s typewritten letters and then he writes to the stepfather asking him to come to 221B Baker Street to discuss the case and then confronts the stepfather with the fact that every typewriter has its own unique signature and the stepfather wrote his letters with the same typewriter with which the “boyfriend” wrote his. (The stepfather wanted to keep her from marrying since he was worried that he would lose the money he married into so he thought that this would scare her out of romantic relationships.) In the first book, A Study in Scarlet, Lestrade thinks the killer was trying to write Rachel but Holmes says it’s actually Rache (German for revenge) to make them suspect a political conspiracy but Holmes is only half-right since while it was written in German to make them suspect a political conspiracy the killer actually specifically wanted revenge.

@@matityaloran9157 Very interesting! Yeah they sound much better - I'll definitely give them a go.

@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt You should. They’re really good books.

@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt Yeah, his deductions are often less about observations and more about making connections based on things he remembers. Like how in The Hound of the Baskervilles he recognizes the words from a ransom note to know what newspaper they are from, and recognizes the smell of a certain perfume on the paper.

It's also that Sherlock in the books is employing observation with a lot of Occams razor - which works when it's in the original setting because it's mostly things that are quite clearly the easy conclusions. But actual crime investigations have become more technical (although more in fiction than reality, see 'the CSI effect') since then, and police are openly and commonly involved in prosecutions than they were in the 1800s, and people really find it hard to imagine a situation with police that don't look like they do right now (see any d&d game where guards feature as any form of law enforcement, because enforcing laws is very much not the job of the guys patrolling the city wall. They're there to defend the city/castle wall, and very much just that. If you wanted people to arrest someone, you'd get guys who weren't literally being paid to look in the oposite direction.

Thank you! The first time I watched it ages ago I really enjoyed it, but rewatching it now I find it a bit... Hollow? Convenient?

​@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt What do you enjoy about it? I hated the pilot since the first scene. The game of wits between Sherlock and the culprit, are enraging with how stupid it is. I skip one episode I think, to see what they did with Irene Adler, and rage-quit in the final scene. All I remember from it is how stupid it is and how angry it make me feel.

Thanks very much! Glad you liked it.

Thank you much appreciated!

Really fantastic points! I completely agree with everything you expanded upon, I think the most important thing you called out was how intelligence comes not only in different shapes and sizes, but also real people tend to specialise or excel in a particular field. I think a common misconception people have is if one is knowledgeable or smart in one regard, it means they must be smart in everything. Maybe fiction is partly to blame for that, because a smart character will generally be shown to be amazing at absolutely everything. There's rarely a moment where someone says "that's not my field", for example.

@@MediaRetrospective-sb2pt Thank you, and I agree, about your point. Incidentally, having smart characters talk more about intelligence in stories, and its application, limitations, strengths, weaknesses, could be decent ways at demonstrating their intelligence, or potentially lack of. The other is when you have multiple smart characters, who can explain and analysis each other, to illustrate the massive levels of difference, for those that may not necessarily distinguish it. Lots of creative approaches. I think some writers often sort of just write (high) intelligence as if its super strength or super speed.
All the best and take care!

Yeah, too much was left to random chance to be honest. And Sage didn't end up doing much (visibly).

Except it wasn't really left to chance because Neumann was an ally. Her living was fine anyway. The boys however were being forced to try and kill her so of course you plan for her dying. Its only left to chance if the plan hinges on it. The plan did not.

A bit of humility with some of these writers could really go a long way - writing a hyper intelligent character really shouldn't even be attempted unless you really know what you're doing.

This is not the case for Six of Crows! The ending wasn't anticipated by Kaz (the Crows leader). He took a precaution because he doesn't trust people (especially the rich), not that everything was part of his plan.
He had to plan and improvise multiple times, and of course used the available asset (Nina) as a precaution. He gathered information about Wylan to support this decision. It wasn't a "this was all part of my plan" situation. If it was, he would've gotten the kruge for the job, not lost it to Van Eck
Thank you for coming to my TED talk ^^

@@ravennflightt I wasn’t thinking about the ending, actually.
It’s been a while since I’ve read it, but the dock scene is a good example of a character saying it was “all part of their plan” after it all happened. There are other examples but I wouldn’t feel comfortable mentioning them since I don’t recall everything 100%.
The fact that they’re all just kids and we’re supposed to believe they have so much more knowledge and experience than everyone else never sat right with me.
I understand the focus of the story is more on the “found family “ and trauma aspects, but these were just a couple of of the things that were disappointing for me in this book