Vivian: *explicitly says thing* Someone: *challenges thing* Vivian: "I fucking didn't fucking say that, right? What I fucking said was, that *slightly obfuscated version of thing* right?"
@@thecooletompie Yeah getting people fired is just gonna radicalize them more. She and others like her have a very flawed logic. Reaching out to these people is what they should be doing but in Vivians case I think I'd rather she not do anything at all.
I second that. She is the best tool for far right rhetoric that they have. Listening to her for five minutes….who would want to relate to her? She’s awful.
As someone who is subscribed to people all over the political spectrum, she's championed like a martyr in some right wing spaces. Telling your fans how antifa are all insane people who will doxx you because you posted the wrong memes? Clip of vivian. Telling your fans how antifa are like fascists with lists of people who will be executed if they get in power? Clip of vivian. Telling your fans how being being trans is linked to trauma, degenerate behavior, or wacky politics? Clip of vivian. Telling your fans how the left are slimy and manipulative? Literally clips from this video right here. "The lists addresses, the lists names, the lists finding out where you work" "These lists sound scary" "Huh? What lists? Who mentioned lists?" And not sure why this happens so much but, if you're in a group of people, and EVERYONE is against what you say, even people otherwise on your side, maybe think about that for a second. What's more likely, you, Vivian, are the sole arbiter of truth, and even your supposed comrades are just too blind to see or agree? Or that maybe you're acting like a fucking fascist, and they really don't want to associate that and you're going way too far. Flip the political compass. Where most on this panel would be kinda strongly right wing (anti immigration, anti trans), and vivian would be the ultra right wing one suggesting that maybe people shooting up places of worship is necessary. While most of the people on the panel call her insane and fascist for it, she blindly believes that "They won't listen otherwise!". It's wild. If she had more power, she'd be imprisoning or killing the people on these lists, if she could get away with it, I'm 100% convinced. She keeps talking about how she has no problem with violence against "fascists" and "neo nazis", but I have a good feeling her definition for "fascist" is a whole lot looser than everyone elses, and THAT is the scary part. If it was like death note and you could just write down the names of actual criminals, maybe. But the fact I'm relying on insane antifa fuckers who are terminally online is too much. She keeps saying "organized groups! they've been around for years!", I've never heard of them till this video. She's making it out like they're the CIA, when it's probably 15 retards in a discord group going "Wow this bitch just banned me, she's going on the list" and "This guy ratiod my tweet, he's going on the list"
It's a mental stall technique someone subconsciously does when they really don't know what to say. You see it with public speakers and the word "Um" and similar things when the brain needs a second to think. Almost like a form of a stutter when it gets this bad. Its awful listening to that person.
Vaush and Destiny: we cant trust the internet to accurately determine who is a facist Vivian: Yeah I know, Its really hard to find the right addreses and shit
This is just the latest sneaky debate tactic, now that people expect him to eat pizza, not eating pizza intimidates his opponents by subverting their expectations!!!
@@stretchimus4357 ong. I don’t particularly agree with many of the positions destiny or the other people I’ve seen on his stream hold, but by and large I’d consider them largely reasonable positions to hold on a good majority of topics. Everytime I’ve listened to Vivian on destiny’s stream though, I just get confused and start wondering how all the worst takes I’ve seen on twitter, all got adopted by one person whole heartedly and not with any amount of irony.
@@anteaterking6728 Why are you attacking that girl & calling her 12? She didn't do anything lol. You can't be mad she doesn't know the names of people on the panel. I never heard of half of them either
Vivian: “we need to kick Nazis off of platforms” Also Vivian: “studies show that if you put an extremist with a few moderate friends, their brain literally changes and they become less -moderate- extreme” Also also Vivian: “I have to protect my community from the evil right, so I’ll quarantine my community from the right” So basically: I have a pre-conclusion, I know the evidence proves me wrong, but I’m not going to change my conclusion Solid logic 👍
@@SleekDiamond41 Not to mention, Vivian: "I'm ok with Nazis on this list, and I'm not blatantly against violence as long as they're provably a nazi." Also Vivian: "A nazi is someone with extreme fascist views and deep in anti-semitism" Also also Vivian, a couple months later talking about the Rittenhouse case: "They're LITERALLY white supremacists." Destiny: "How do you know they're white supremacists?" Vivian: "Well they're in a facebook group where a guy posted a racy meme, and they're not siding with BLM" Clearly she's inconsistent. She claims she only wants provable nazis/fascists on the list, but also flip-flops between what is and isn't provably fascist behaviour. Hell, they said it here, she's called OTHER PEOPLE ON THE PANEL FASCIST! So what, she makes a list, and I just have to act nice to her because if she has a bad day, I'm going on the Nazi list with my address and she will get my payment channels disrupted? I can't tell if she's becoming more radicalized over time or is simply inconsistent, but either way someone like that should NEVER have ANY influence in something as important as ruining people's lives.
Vivian is literally an extremist, just on the other side of the conversation. All this time referring to deplatforming extremists would apply to them as well. Also, while I’m talking about it, I’m tired of any person that people disagree with all of a sudden being a nazi. Being a nazi doesn’t mean anything anymore. Very grating to hear Vivian and others talk like this.
I know right? Unless you are going to actual fucking meetings and planning acts against other races then you're not a nazi. People act like saying the n word makes you a nazi
Honestly the most grating thing about Vivian is how often she swears. She literally cannot get through a single sentence without adding ‘fucking’ at least once in there and it’s just so jarring. I love swearing as much as the next guy but what’s even the point of you’re saying it without meaning anything?
It's ironic that she claims to be anti-fascist but if you actually listen to her. She advocates for silencing/deplatforming everyone that she disagrees with.
You'll notice that the conversation started with deplatforming nazis, then to "the right", then to conservatives, and finally just Republicans. Half of them agreed to shutter Fox if they had the power to do so. The funny thing is in the beginning they were having a brainstorm session on why they couldn't move people from the middle to the left. Complete lack of self awareness from these people.
As someone from the right, these openminded and rational conversations really opened me up to a lot of new ideas. I (and I assume a lot of other right-wingers) have gotten the impression that the left disregards us as a horde of inhumane barbarians or something. And you really can't blame us when you have people like Vivian going around basically making the point that we are too demented and beyond redemption. This kind of thinking has pushed rational people on both sides into hatefueled echo-chambers. If you strike up a conversation you'll find out we have a lot more in common than you'd think, the extremes of both sides have made us seem evil to each other.
People like Vivian make it’s hard for us on the left because of how much she fits in to the stereotypical lefty that some conservatives think encompass the whole left. I agree the extremes of both parties are terrible and only serve to push each side further apart with their terrible takes like Vivian defending doxx lists as long as antifa does em, it’s just a terrible position and she wouldn’t be charitable to people she opposed doing it purely because she disagrees with em and only sees the harm they could cause, while refusing to admit that it’s fully possible that the same could happen from lefty groups.
@@OnlySamCan hasan is just like her 🤷🏻♂️and he is the most popular on the left. most of the big faces of the left are ok with her views. it doesn’t matter if this small group of open minded debaters hate her cause the most prominent members of the left are fringe radicals
3:05:00 - I'm sorry. I'd consider Vivian an unsafe person and remove her from all panals. If she is ok with doxxing lists and people being hurt in this way, she isn't understanding enough to realize this can go both ways, and isn't a good person to be around. She's unbelievably dishonest.
I see Destiny used the "eat off screen" debate technique in this one. You see, instead of focusing on the debate, the audience is wondering, "hmm what is destiny eating? Why won't he raise it up a little for the camera? is it pizza? Is he using a utensil?" This was a beautiful use of an advance level debate technique.
Right? It’s insane. Why de platform people? That just proves you were afraid of what they have to say. Let everyone have a platform, and let the people decide who they like
It's the easiest way to create radicalized people. They say "We feel the radical parts of the left are after silencing us", and Vivian says "No we're not, now you're going on the list, can't wait to get you banned, make you lose your job, and prevent you getting paid, and I don't even feel bad about it!" So then they leave discord and twitter, where even the nazis are moderate, let's be real, and move to dark corners like 8chan and voat and before you know it you've pushed them into the perfect echochamber. Because now it's not just a wacky conspiracy that "the left are seeking to silence us so they can rule without question", it's reality to them now. They've literally been silenced. And that's how you get Christchurch mosque shootings. You ban them from public places, they move to the alleys. You ban them from public discussion, they move to quiet whispers. We've already seen this in history with prohibition. These people don't disappear, if they don't have a path from where they are to where you want them to be, they just operate in shadier areas, with less oversight, resulting in even more dangerous people. You think bar fights were bad? Imagine them when the only bar in down is in some back alley basement where no-one will call the police. You think twitter nazis are bad? Imagine them when the only conversation they can have is with other extremists where all they'll do is encourage their thinking and push them to violent action.
Yeah, it got to the point at which I was wondering if it might be due to an audio issue during this panel. Maybe this is just a behavior some people develop when they're doing a lot of online debates to avoid that people talk over them? I don't know, I generally like hearing their perspective even when I often don't agree with them, but you're right about this being pretty irritating sometimes.
@@slimefood4045 True dat. It's also her extreme cadence of human superiority and dog shit takes. Everything revolves around far far leftist "revolutionary" ideology, and moral supremacy ... but I guess she's not the only one on this panel. But she's among the worst. Cringe. Her manifesto about "platforming" is so regressive, and other folks were pretty close in their takes too. These are the people that are the roots of "Cancel" culture and attitude. The ruination of the west and enlightenment values. These people expect to be given credence, or dare I even say be given the reins of power? This is how civil wars start. Over my dead body. And I'm just a milktoast liberal saying that. Not even a conservative. So I can only imagine the disdain these people generate for those on the right.
But you don’t get it, they are good, and people who disagree with them are evil, therefore there is no irony it’s a good and liberty advancing move to shut down opposing speech, especially when after you get them shut down and wiped from the internet, you go around spreading lies about the things they believe and the things they said before they were deplatformed, that’s the ultimate chad liberty move and definitely not at all authoritarian.
Truueeee. Am i the only one who doesnt agree with the fat bearded guy, when i was young i was left for sure, my parents were Dems and I cared too much about making sure my native friend was comfortable which I later realized was racist. Treating anyone better or worse just because of their race is fucked up, literally goes against the idea of equality BUT as soon as i stopped kissing his ass... things changed and suddenly i was racist for correcting my actual racist behaviour.
@@gogetafour2126I totally get where you're coming from. In the uk, this is known as positive discrimination (it's synonmous with affirmative action in the US) and is considered illegal. However, with the growing trend in social movements the company I have currently been employed in for two years has been increasing "Iclusivity Policies" which means that each year they hire a select amount of people based on their diversity rather than their merit and that 60% of my work time is taken up by different groups setting up meetings to raise awareness of these issues and how it impacts our workplace and new incetivised programs to treat us to curb our unconscious bias (etc, etc), when at the end of the day the majority of these colleagues I've had the bad luck to work with are really just planks who couldn't find their way out a paper bag.
The irony of Vivian being apart of a team of people responsible for "de-radicalizing" people when she is the one that needs to be de-radicalized. She's trying to de-platform people and make them lose their job for having beliefs she can't handle.
@Michael Johnson but who's she to decide? Why does anyone think that they have that right to decide who's in the wrong? From my perspective she is all of those things, who's to stop me from deplatforming her?
@Michael Johnson She's not even right about half her shit though, shes the kind of person who calls every single hair on her head racist for bending the wrong way. Have you seen the debate between Milo and Destiny, It's completely false to label him a fascist.
@@neovssmith19 what do you expect from someone who thinks anyone who disagrees with her, is a white supremacist nazi? She advocates for bashing counter protestors, regardless of whether they’re causing trouble or not. Like Destiny said not long ago to her “you are a terrorist, and just like a fascist” and he’s right.
Vivian: I don't know what you're talking about Anyone: Ok I'll explain Vivian: I'll just keep talking over you saying I don't know what you're talking about until I gishgallop this discussion. Vivian: Discusses hypothetical lists Anyone: Question about said hypothetical list Vivian: I don't know what list you're talking about
I'm surprised vivian wasn't called out on how they kept using "we" and describing some fucking crack team of Anti-fascist professional researchers "who do it for a living and in many cases for several decades" to describe a purity tested gang of insane commies with about the level of qualification and intelligence of a fucking discord mod.
Personally my issue is that she seems to try and come off like an anarchist and says she is one and argues for big democracy type things but then argues for autocratic control over the opposition which just so happens to be over 99% of the world
@@mbd251 it’s a motte and Bailey tactic. I engaged with her on twitter months ago talking about how her beleifs when it comes to opposition make her clearly an authoritarian. She had the same reaction then that she did in this stream. Just because you call yourself an anarchist doesn’t mean your actions don’t belie a different truth (possible she even believes she’s an anarchist but she doesn’t come across as such to me). The DPRK isn’t democratic, a republic, or governed by its people yet they still feel the need to use these labels as well.
Zach Spencer she thinks she’s an anarchist because she’s an anarcho-communist, but in order to get that in place you’d have to be extremely authoritarian. It’s a contradicting belief system.
vivian is such a frustrating person to hear participate in group conversations. always trying to bulldoze, redundant points, projecting her perceptions to the context of other's points. ugh.
Vivian is deranged, but people's response to this is really telling. I think quite a few people were mad she was saying the quiet part out loud and it makes them look just as deranged.
@@TheShamanicHealerGodyes, most of the panel was probably very uncomfortable with the way the game was given away by Vivian. Most of what these people do is unspoken understanding between them, because to verbalize it honestly is horrific optics, and exposes their conscience to guilt, and shame. The way they operate is through vague sloganeering and moral grandstanding about how they are fighting nazis the same as the Ally’s in WW2. It’s all bullshit and they know it, what they’re really doing is making sure they silence all opposition so their cultural power grows unchallenged because they don’t want anyone exposed to opposing ideas ever so they get as many people on their team as possible which will give electoral dominance, and that’s how they get their revolution. This is the silent part they never discuss, at least in my opinion, I don’t really think this fits but there is certainly some support of doxxing, harassment, intimidation and very likely violence (how many of these people oppose antifa violence? I bet way more of them routinely obfuscate, minimize, and dismiss antifa whenever the topic comes up, which is a long deployed tactic of supporting political violence and every lesser form of violence deployed by them)
Vivian has that power tip that comes with 1800 followers and a strong echo chamber on twitter; the ability to talk as if we don't have 10ish years worth of evidence otherwise on almost all of her points must be such a warm blanket of confidence
"I've worked with antifa groups to deplatform these nazis and fascists" Really she means she told her followers to harass someone who BTFO'd her ass on twitter. But has to frame it like she's fucking Che Guavara.
@@ChichiNaka Stream viewers are always low. Followers are a better indication. And when it comes to the power to deplatform, you don't even need any followers anyway, as long as you know the right kind of people willing to deplatform for anything.
Because it increases her platform it's good. Money justifies everything. Hence... MSNBC/Fox. When money is the driving force, the words cease to have as much weight.
@@AsogiMK sure. But what does that have to do with it? I support people going after money, that's how our society functions - incentive. But it's not ok to say it doesn't affect what you say. Generally the less successful you are, the more honest you can afford to be - when you start having staff to pay etc, you get tempted more and more to tailor your message to what brings in the most money. You get corrupted.
On top of that she had the gall to agree with Vaush and Destiny over competent debaters doing it while talking like she should be considered anything close to a good example of a lefty. I wouldn't trust Vivian anywhere near a spotlight, she matches every negative SJW stereotype to a T.
@@edwardrichard8093 it's funny that he hasn't even mentioned a "side that he is on" but you leap over that fact, and somersaulted with an ad hominem against an imaginary opponent. She is fascist-light, but I do think that if she heard the actual fascist worldview, it would cause her to see parallels with herself which she would be disgusted by, so she would slowly improve over time. Or maybe she would just ignore it and talk over the person to redefine fascism and call them a fascist.
I've got four words for Vivian and anyone supporting "Lists" Kraut & Tea Patebin Anyone who ignores or doesn't learn the lessons of history is deemed to repeat it.
The shouting matches during the doxx list discussion really really illustrates the need for these political/philosophical speakers to have better mics/filter setups holy shit
Part of the audio problem is that discord adjust volume whenever multiple people are talking and some people are made louder while others are made quiter and warped.
@@lordhelix2760 Vivian of the Grey Tails...? So you work for the NOZOMI group too? Perhaps the Organization has invaded too deep. I must commence Operation Lönjdra and begin the age of chaos to stop Vivian from fucking everyone out of existence! Muah ha ha ha!
Yes, they can be harmed! No, they shouldn't be harmed! I'm not hiding my views, they should be harmed! The list is just there for awareness! I don't even have access to the list! Wanna see the list?!
I love how everybody on the panel thinks that they are entitled to be the only one who can talk to right wing people. Because god forbid if anybody else does it, it would be irresponsible because you would be platforming those conservative ideas. This is such BS.
Tip if u don't call us fascist when many of us (mainly us old fashioned neo cons who pretend we never supported trump since 6/1) we will happily meet a a middle ground agreement. I,e im pro life so I'd let lefties implement a comprehensive sex ed (if u show graphic child birth show a graphic abortion and graphic STD infections) free easy birth control fuck it opt out IUDs or vasectomies (when they are more consistently reversible) and strong supportive systems for single mothers brutal child support for man whores and improved orphanages. To reduce the need for abortions to the point the necessity of the obvious evil of aborting a 10 week fetus with hearts lungs and finger prints for elective reasons is not tolerated in society.
10 mins in and I’m already struggling. The problem with saying lets de-platform fascists and nazis is that these sorts of people consider anyone slightly to the right of them fascists and nazis. I mean the guy in the top right literally said ‘bad people, like conservatives’. What they really mean by de-platforming fascists and nazis is de-platform any one who challenges my worldview so I don’t have to listen to them speak and I can live in my bubble thinking everyone views the world like I do.
It's even funnier because fanatiq said "bully anyone who disagrees with you" and she took issue with it. But if she means nazis, and she calls everyone to her right a nazi, she really does just mean everyone she disagrees with, but she knows that comes off really badly. But her doing that is exactly like those "I'm not racist, but..." or "I don't have an issue with black people at all. I just really take issues with THUGS and CRIMINALS and GANGSTERS." Like ok dude, say it in more words.
It's even worse than that. I'm not sure about Destiny yet, but Vaush and Vivian would love to see you dead if you're conservative. Not just deplatformed. They want you dead. As for Destiny, I'm not sure if he would like you dead, but he sure as Hell hates conservatives with a burning passion.
Maybe my mindset is fucked from being too online but like, I can't see making a doxing list for any reason as anything but breaking an unwritten code. You just don't do that sorta shit
many leftists do not believe in morals when they get in the way of their goals. like how Vaush says that truth isn't important if it gets in the way of his politics being advanced
@@erichooper2794 Well, guess us lefties are lucky he literally didn’t say that, aye? Come on, Destiny is the biggest nuance-bro in the fucking world, and we’re literally watching him rn, so let’s apply the same standard to others.
I've never heard this Viv person before but based on this conversation I find [insert correct pronoun here] reprehensible, hateful and I absolutely consider this person dangerous and possibly an enemy.
43:00 - Eris is completely right here, Mob rule and justice has taken over these spaces. What Vivan is talking about happens in other spaces as well. Right now across the states which I have seen before, local artist communties have private "black lists" run by people whos hobby or full time job (unappointed mind you) is finding out who "local predators" are, and placing them on this list with names, phone numbers, and some of them with full addresses. The people who run these lists and private groups for sharing the info do not look at any facts of evidence to the matter, and once you are placed on these list by color (yellow, red, or black), you are FOREVER there with no chance of redemption, even if you have evidence or proof against the claim. The lists themselves aren't a terrible idea, but they are being used as mob justice with people in positions of power who are abusing those powers, at the detrimate of more innocent people then guilty. It's killed off so many collaborating communties because it has left everyone in a state of fear. Fear for being canceled, or fear of working with someone who might be canceled.
the distances vivien runs to avoid obvious questions anybody could see from half a globe away is astounding. actual competitive sports levels of dodging
Deplatforming “works” insofar as it often decreases opportunities for amplification of a figure, but it does very little to solve for the toxic cultural undercurrent which drives that figure. That’s where public debate and critical commentary/articles come into play.
Also. You can only deplatform from so much. There is always alternative media that now gains more legitimacy after a particular media has engaged in deplatforming.
I'd argue that it actually reinforces the culture behind it. It gives people a martyr and a justification to push even harder against the mainstream. It also breeds massive distrust in the media and in left-wing politics. Imagine if you thought you were 100% right about a conspiracy theory but instead of people talking to you about it, debating it, or simply ignoring you... they removed you and any mention of your ideas from the public space. Do you think you'd stop believing in it or would you feel more justified than ever that you were on the right track and that there is a media conspiracy against your beliefs?
I don't know. Twitter banning trump seemed like a good idea since it helped shut down those anti-election discourse. I mean trumps Twitter was basically enflaming hatred division and making America a less safe place.
Try watching "cult of dusty" podcast sometime. Every time someone does something he doesn't like he yells "name and shame! Dox these people. Get them fired" I thought he was kind of entertaining but stuff like that became too repulsive to tolerate
I think the most annoying and frustrating thing about this was the fact that when anyone’s talking at the same time you can’t hear fucking ANYTHING. Like it actually is just noise.
I wasn’t radicalized into the right or anything, but I had some pretty cringe beliefs about Muslims and feminism. Listening to destiny prevented me from going any farther down that rabbit hole. But listening to Vivian is fucking cancer oh my god. Every other word is “fucking”, and I don’t know if it’s her voice or something, but it’s super fucking grating to listen to.
I really have to thank destiny for bringing me to the left, as a teenager I am self-aware about being impressionable, and luckily I was just a standard neocon, you know like shaprio, hunter avallone, nothing bad. but I still prefer being here. I just wish the left wouldn't gatekeep as much, those with edgy humor should be welcomed in the left is they actually want good things.
I use to have some respect for some of the alt-right people but hearing them talk with Destiny and some other influencers have really shown me that a lot of them are kind of ignorant of a lot of what they talk about.
I've only seen the first 2 hours of the debate, but from what I've seen it's Vivian defending the doxx list, and Vaush being against her? The thumbnail suggests that Vaush is the one with the list lol, seems a lil misleading mby?
@@declanm2783 well that's the reason it feels clickbaity. As much as it probably irks d.gg, Vaush & Destiny were more of a tag team in this discussion, but portraying it as them debating each other gets more clicks.
Makes me glad that my social circles aren't radical left ones where I have to walk on eggshells with everything I say and be terrified of the repercussions of any momentary slip up.
@@sticks7857 This guy isn’t speaking in a “social circle” at all, but in a huge public forum. He has a greater responsibility to be careful with his language. It has less to do with the political leanings of the audience than the size of the audience. Even in a very left-leaning social circle you probably aren’t having to worry that heavily about repercussions beyond “hey man, not cool.” Unless you’re defining your “social circle” by the online communities you’re part of, those are maybe less likely to be charitable.
This is literally like the scene where Luscius Fox debates with Batman over using the supercomputer that could literally Dox anyone in the world at any time. Spoilers, they ended up destroying the computer, because of the moral implication of trying to _play God._
@@LiquidNCAK The use of the device was literally the straw on the camel’s back, and the turning point even for Batman. They had to actually use the technology to understand the full implication (literally the order of events for Luscius’ condemnation of such abuse of power, he hadn’t even seen it before then). They reasoned that if the technology fell into the wrong hands (like the Joker and his goons, or any of Arkham’s criminal sector), it would be catastrophic. Not to mention, Batman had already made a PERMADEATH SCRIPT to kill the machine after they used it to stop the Joker, since Batman is always making 5000 IQ plays to create contingencies for everything he hears about. You’re basing the entire moral argument purely on its function as a plot device, which is tangential. The moral criticism still stands.
@@_The_Traveler_ Sure, the moral criticism of the NSA still stands, but I'm trying to argue that the way the movie engaged with that argument was limp. There really was very little conversation about the nature of the surveillance network. The explanation of that network only happens as Batman is already using it against the Joker, and Lucius only briefly criticizes it. And after they use it they, Fox and Batman agree to delete it but only because Batman had already planned ahead to destroy it. It's moral "conversation" that really conveniently resolves itself. And while Fox does resign, Batman is also already giving up the role as The Dark Knight, so Fox resigning has almost no significance to Batman. I don't disagree with the premise and the reasoning, it's a direct criticism of the NSA, but it's a bad criticism because it reasons that it's often okay to use that network, such as fighting terrorists like Joker, and that people who do have that kind of power will use it responsibly, like Batman. It doesn't engage with the NSA with any real nuance.
@@Goriaas I didn't get there yet but if he's referring to the right then yeah he probably is. Found the part, He's talking about fascists. Yes Vaush is 100% correct. 5:30 is the timestamp for anyone curious.
Vaush talking especifically about fascists: "The oposition is stupid" Destiny "fans" that don't actually know destiny: He ThInKs hE iS SOOOO much SmArTER thaN EverYON ElsE
@@TheEndingAbyss It's his first statement (excluding the "ya didn't bring your notes") He was talking strectily about "fascists that are so fascists everyone knows they are fascists" as defined by Vivian
I disagree with Vivian and find her to be brazenly dishonest in nearly every way. However, her most annoying attribute is saying "fuck" every 2 seconds. I get wanting to put some emotional weight behind your ditzy broad notions, but it's not warranted.
Damn... imagine ONE PERSON talking for about 60 - 70% of the duration of a panel with SEVEN PEOPLE in it. And then add on to that, this ONE PERSON complains that "everyone keeps interrupting" her and "Nobody lets her speak". What a hilarious hypothetical situation, totally would NEVER happen in a real panel.... *Sarcasm intensifies*
Viv seems like someone primed for political violence (there’s a term for that) and a plethora of excuses for said violence. An embodiment of everything that makes “center” folks get freaked out and say “I don’t want any part of whatever ‘movement’ you got going on, ‘good’ or otherwise.” And she keeps saying all the words to prove she don’t care about anything but the utopia. Disturbing stuff. But an interesting 4 hours of content.
“Fascism is when you don’t want fascists to spread their opinions” - Lycanmaster Man I’m not the biggest Vaush fan anymore but he really was spot on with the “imagined hypocrisy” thing
@@spacejam_ki2677 Fascism is forcible suppression of opposition. I'd call preventing anyone you disagree with from speaking suppression of opposition. You can feel free to attempt to gaslight me though
Timestamps in description. Good luck.
A lot of this cancel culture is just liberals and conservatives Infantilizing and then white-knighting their audiences.
Fortnite battle royale
Why is it not showing up on the timeline?
Make the Kashmir thing a video.
@@dranelemakol they have no idea, it worked for a while and now it just suddenly isn't showing anymore
Vivian: *explicitly says thing*
Someone: *challenges thing*
Vivian: "I fucking didn't fucking say that, right? What I fucking said was, that *slightly obfuscated version of thing* right?"
I can't fucking stand her, it's so weasely and morally righteous at the same time
@@elephantman2854 You missed two dozen “fuckings” and “rights,” but I agree.
@@thescarecrow897 They’re trans.
Did anyone count how many times she complained about "lists"? I almost think she complained about it more times than it was brought up.
This person is so bad for the left
Vivian: The list is fact checked.
Also Vivian: I don't know anything about the list.
It's Schrodinger' list
@@CabbageYe still lying
*The fucking list if fucking fact fucking checked.
At points in this conversation Vivian would either confirm the existence of the list or not know what the word list even means.
@@thecooletompie Yeah getting people fired is just gonna radicalize them more. She and others like her have a very flawed logic. Reaching out to these people is what they should be doing but in Vivians case I think I'd rather she not do anything at all.
showing the general public an hour of Vivian talking would be the most effective recruitment tool for the "far right"
I second that. She is the best tool for far right rhetoric that they have. Listening to her for five minutes….who would want to relate to her? She’s awful.
She’d bring back the red scare
as someone who just recently started destiny, I have to agree
As someone who is subscribed to people all over the political spectrum, she's championed like a martyr in some right wing spaces. Telling your fans how antifa are all insane people who will doxx you because you posted the wrong memes? Clip of vivian. Telling your fans how antifa are like fascists with lists of people who will be executed if they get in power? Clip of vivian. Telling your fans how being being trans is linked to trauma, degenerate behavior, or wacky politics? Clip of vivian. Telling your fans how the left are slimy and manipulative? Literally clips from this video right here. "The lists addresses, the lists names, the lists finding out where you work" "These lists sound scary" "Huh? What lists? Who mentioned lists?"
And not sure why this happens so much but, if you're in a group of people, and EVERYONE is against what you say, even people otherwise on your side, maybe think about that for a second. What's more likely, you, Vivian, are the sole arbiter of truth, and even your supposed comrades are just too blind to see or agree? Or that maybe you're acting like a fucking fascist, and they really don't want to associate that and you're going way too far.
Flip the political compass. Where most on this panel would be kinda strongly right wing (anti immigration, anti trans), and vivian would be the ultra right wing one suggesting that maybe people shooting up places of worship is necessary. While most of the people on the panel call her insane and fascist for it, she blindly believes that "They won't listen otherwise!". It's wild. If she had more power, she'd be imprisoning or killing the people on these lists, if she could get away with it, I'm 100% convinced. She keeps talking about how she has no problem with violence against "fascists" and "neo nazis", but I have a good feeling her definition for "fascist" is a whole lot looser than everyone elses, and THAT is the scary part. If it was like death note and you could just write down the names of actual criminals, maybe. But the fact I'm relying on insane antifa fuckers who are terminally online is too much. She keeps saying "organized groups! they've been around for years!", I've never heard of them till this video. She's making it out like they're the CIA, when it's probably 15 retards in a discord group going "Wow this bitch just banned me, she's going on the list" and "This guy ratiod my tweet, he's going on the list"
You mean Vee Sturgess from Norwich, best to use the real name of people arguing for forceful transparency.
Vaush's chat was keeping track of the amount of times Vivian said "fuck" and I think they hit like 550 fucks.
Seems like a lowball tbh.
lol
Each "fuck" is grating on the ear.
@@clivemyrie4209 By “fuck” number 243, I no longer had ears.
It's a mental stall technique someone subconsciously does when they really don't know what to say. You see it with public speakers and the word "Um" and similar things when the brain needs a second to think. Almost like a form of a stutter when it gets this bad. Its awful listening to that person.
Vaush and Destiny: we cant trust the internet to accurately determine who is a facist
Vivian: Yeah I know, Its really hard to find the right addreses and shit
Destiny did not use his Pizza technique...mercy is a show of strength.
His new form is stronger without it.
This is just the latest sneaky debate tactic, now that people expect him to eat pizza, not eating pizza intimidates his opponents by subverting their expectations!!!
Too dirty a tactic when surrounded by hungry leftists
Mercy is the new debate tactic
@@agre3202 too busy waiting for the pizza to pay attention to the opposing argument
Vivian made a really good case for deplatforming themselves in this panel.
@@ezragoldberg3132 being new to destiny and bingeing many videos and debate panels and such, won’t lie I second your take 💀
@@stretchimus4357 ong. I don’t particularly agree with many of the positions destiny or the other people I’ve seen on his stream hold, but by and large I’d consider them largely reasonable positions to hold on a good majority of topics. Everytime I’ve listened to Vivian on destiny’s stream though, I just get confused and start wondering how all the worst takes I’ve seen on twitter, all got adopted by one person whole heartedly and not with any amount of irony.
I was against deplatforming before. But Vivian won me over. Vivian's opinions are really unhealthy to hear.
Vivian: Never shuts up
Also Vivian: Let me speak!
yeah he was so annoying
@@claire6223 she*
@@claire6223 Nice trolling streak. I remember being 12 too.
@@anteaterking6728 Why are you attacking that girl & calling her 12? She didn't do anything lol. You can't be mad she doesn't know the names of people on the panel. I never heard of half of them either
@@anteaterking6728 I literaly thought it was a boy too
"can you describe what a Nazi is?"
Literally Vivian: "right, like fuckin.."
Vivian: “we need to kick Nazis off of platforms”
Also Vivian: “studies show that if you put an extremist with a few moderate friends, their brain literally changes and they become less -moderate- extreme”
Also also Vivian: “I have to protect my community from the evil right, so I’ll quarantine my community from the right”
So basically: I have a pre-conclusion, I know the evidence proves me wrong, but I’m not going to change my conclusion
Solid logic 👍
@@SleekDiamond41 Not to mention, Vivian: "I'm ok with Nazis on this list, and I'm not blatantly against violence as long as they're provably a nazi."
Also Vivian: "A nazi is someone with extreme fascist views and deep in anti-semitism"
Also also Vivian, a couple months later talking about the Rittenhouse case: "They're LITERALLY white supremacists."
Destiny: "How do you know they're white supremacists?"
Vivian: "Well they're in a facebook group where a guy posted a racy meme, and they're not siding with BLM"
Clearly she's inconsistent. She claims she only wants provable nazis/fascists on the list, but also flip-flops between what is and isn't provably fascist behaviour. Hell, they said it here, she's called OTHER PEOPLE ON THE PANEL FASCIST! So what, she makes a list, and I just have to act nice to her because if she has a bad day, I'm going on the Nazi list with my address and she will get my payment channels disrupted?
I can't tell if she's becoming more radicalized over time or is simply inconsistent, but either way someone like that should NEVER have ANY influence in something as important as ruining people's lives.
Vivian is literally an extremist, just on the other side of the conversation. All this time referring to deplatforming extremists would apply to them as well. Also, while I’m talking about it, I’m tired of any person that people disagree with all of a sudden being a nazi. Being a nazi doesn’t mean anything anymore. Very grating to hear Vivian and others talk like this.
I know right? Unless you are going to actual fucking meetings and planning acts against other races then you're not a nazi. People act like saying the n word makes you a nazi
Honestly the most grating thing about Vivian is how often she swears. She literally cannot get through a single sentence without adding ‘fucking’ at least once in there and it’s just so jarring. I love swearing as much as the next guy but what’s even the point of you’re saying it without meaning anything?
It's ironic that she claims to be anti-fascist but if you actually listen to her. She advocates for silencing/deplatforming everyone that she disagrees with.
You'll notice that the conversation started with deplatforming nazis, then to "the right", then to conservatives, and finally just Republicans. Half of them agreed to shutter Fox if they had the power to do so. The funny thing is in the beginning they were having a brainstorm session on why they couldn't move people from the middle to the left. Complete lack of self awareness from these people.
@@TOPBLAZER85 if antifa was pro life they'd bomb abortion clinics
As someone from the right, these openminded and rational conversations really opened me up to a lot of new ideas.
I (and I assume a lot of other right-wingers) have gotten the impression that the left disregards us as a horde of inhumane barbarians or something. And you really can't blame us when you have people like Vivian going around basically making the point that we are too demented and beyond redemption. This kind of thinking has pushed rational people on both sides into hatefueled echo-chambers.
If you strike up a conversation you'll find out we have a lot more in common than you'd think, the extremes of both sides have made us seem evil to each other.
People like Vivian make it’s hard for us on the left because of how much she fits in to the stereotypical lefty that some conservatives think encompass the whole left. I agree the extremes of both parties are terrible and only serve to push each side further apart with their terrible takes like Vivian defending doxx lists as long as antifa does em, it’s just a terrible position and she wouldn’t be charitable to people she opposed doing it purely because she disagrees with em and only sees the harm they could cause, while refusing to admit that it’s fully possible that the same could happen from lefty groups.
The left doesn’t even like people like Vivian
@@OnlySamCan very true
@@OnlySamCan hasan is just like her 🤷🏻♂️and he is the most popular on the left. most of the big faces of the left are ok with her views. it doesn’t matter if this small group of open minded debaters hate her cause the most prominent members of the left are fringe radicals
@@austyn81007 you realize Vaush and Destiny are like the two biggest left streamers right?
I get why Vaush and Destiny have drama but when they aren’t at each other’s throats they are a great team.
TRUE
No they are not. Destiny has half a brain. Vaush is a idiot.
@@Uthandol What does that make the Neo Nazis they destroyed last year then?
@Delta 38 I like Destiny. I dislike Vaush. I thought you could add these two things up by my post. I guess that is asking to much.
@@FranticAnimations Even bigger morons?
3:05:00 - I'm sorry. I'd consider Vivian an unsafe person and remove her from all panals. If she is ok with doxxing lists and people being hurt in this way, she isn't understanding enough to realize this can go both ways, and isn't a good person to be around. She's unbelievably dishonest.
We need a lefty dox list. See if she's happy with that. I doubt it.
@@NymphieJP no we dont, no doxx lists period.
@@hamasaken That's the point. No one wants doxx list and anyone who says "it's okay for those they oppose" are just so disgusting.
@@funsterkeyven i was anwsering nymphie no dox lists not for left, right, nazi or comunist
Factoid!
I see Destiny used the "eat off screen" debate technique in this one. You see, instead of focusing on the debate, the audience is wondering, "hmm what is destiny eating? Why won't he raise it up a little for the camera? is it pizza? Is he using a utensil?" This was a beautiful use of an advance level debate technique.
The two dads coming over for the weekend was nice and wholesome.
During the intros I was reading all the comments about Viv saying fuck a lot and it still didn't prepare me for how much she likes to say fuck
Fuck, right,like jesus
It makes her look less intelligent/kinda unhinged
@@harpsmith8570 she is unhinged.
@@botheredbiskit is it?
@@lukeoneill2426 is it what?
Imagine thinking deplatforming all of Fox News being good or healthy for democracy
Right? It’s insane. Why de platform people? That just proves you were afraid of what they have to say. Let everyone have a platform, and let the people decide who they like
It's the easiest way to create radicalized people. They say "We feel the radical parts of the left are after silencing us", and Vivian says "No we're not, now you're going on the list, can't wait to get you banned, make you lose your job, and prevent you getting paid, and I don't even feel bad about it!"
So then they leave discord and twitter, where even the nazis are moderate, let's be real, and move to dark corners like 8chan and voat and before you know it you've pushed them into the perfect echochamber. Because now it's not just a wacky conspiracy that "the left are seeking to silence us so they can rule without question", it's reality to them now. They've literally been silenced. And that's how you get Christchurch mosque shootings.
You ban them from public places, they move to the alleys. You ban them from public discussion, they move to quiet whispers. We've already seen this in history with prohibition. These people don't disappear, if they don't have a path from where they are to where you want them to be, they just operate in shadier areas, with less oversight, resulting in even more dangerous people. You think bar fights were bad? Imagine them when the only bar in down is in some back alley basement where no-one will call the police. You think twitter nazis are bad? Imagine them when the only conversation they can have is with other extremists where all they'll do is encourage their thinking and push them to violent action.
Vivian needs to chill while other people are talking, the interrupting is going to explode my head
Yeah, it got to the point at which I was wondering if it might be due to an audio issue during this panel. Maybe this is just a behavior some people develop when they're doing a lot of online debates to avoid that people talk over them?
I don't know, I generally like hearing their perspective even when I often don't agree with them, but you're right about this being pretty irritating sometimes.
@@hoordeyah CANCELLED!
@@ler6118 her talking IS the audio issue
@@slimefood4045 True dat. It's also her extreme cadence of human superiority and dog shit takes. Everything revolves around far far leftist "revolutionary" ideology, and moral supremacy ... but I guess she's not the only one on this panel. But she's among the worst. Cringe. Her manifesto about "platforming" is so regressive, and other folks were pretty close in their takes too. These are the people that are the roots of "Cancel" culture and attitude. The ruination of the west and enlightenment values. These people expect to be given credence, or dare I even say be given the reins of power? This is how civil wars start. Over my dead body. And I'm just a milktoast liberal saying that. Not even a conservative. So I can only imagine the disdain these people generate for those on the right.
@@hoordeyah Couldn't agree more. Also, would be a taste of her own medicine.
A group of people calling others fascist while talking about how shutting down speech is a good thing has got to be the funniest thing I've seen.
But you don’t get it, they are good, and people who disagree with them are evil, therefore there is no irony it’s a good and liberty advancing move to shut down opposing speech, especially when after you get them shut down and wiped from the internet, you go around spreading lies about the things they believe and the things they said before they were deplatformed, that’s the ultimate chad liberty move and definitely not at all authoritarian.
Truueeee. Am i the only one who doesnt agree with the fat bearded guy, when i was young i was left for sure, my parents were Dems and I cared too much about making sure my native friend was comfortable which I later realized was racist. Treating anyone better or worse just because of their race is fucked up, literally goes against the idea of equality BUT as soon as i stopped kissing his ass... things changed and suddenly i was racist for correcting my actual racist behaviour.
@@gogetafour2126I totally get where you're coming from. In the uk, this is known as positive discrimination (it's synonmous with affirmative action in the US) and is considered illegal. However, with the growing trend in social movements the company I have currently been employed in for two years has been increasing "Iclusivity Policies" which means that each year they hire a select amount of people based on their diversity rather than their merit and that 60% of my work time is taken up by different groups setting up meetings to raise awareness of these issues and how it impacts our workplace and new incetivised programs to treat us to curb our unconscious bias (etc, etc), when at the end of the day the majority of these colleagues I've had the bad luck to work with are really just planks who couldn't find their way out a paper bag.
"Do you like the list"
-yes
"Is the list good?"
-yes
"What if list bad?"
-list? What list? I never heard of a list!
The irony of Vivian being apart of a team of people responsible for "de-radicalizing" people when she is the one that needs to be de-radicalized. She's trying to de-platform people and make them lose their job for having beliefs she can't handle.
@Michael Johnson but who's she to decide? Why does anyone think that they have that right to decide who's in the wrong? From my perspective she is all of those things, who's to stop me from deplatforming her?
@Michael Johnson She's not even right about half her shit though, shes the kind of person who calls every single hair on her head racist for bending the wrong way. Have you seen the debate between Milo and Destiny, It's completely false to label him a fascist.
@Michael Johnson Mayhaps, im only a hour or so in
@Michael Johnson I believe you're a terrible person and should never be hired or heard.
@@edwardrichard8093 Right back at ya. I guess it all boils down to who has more political power, doesn't it?
Vivian is me when I learned the F word
Fucking. That’s it. That’s the post.
I fucking remember the first fucking time I said fuck. It felt fucking fantastic to get it out of my fucking fucked sytem.
I usually come down to the comments trying to get some commentary on the actual content, but I forget that it's always COMPLETELY FULL OF MEMES.
I make this mistake ALL THE TIME, and I keep making it.
I remember Fantano’s comment section was also 100% memes when I used to watch theneedledrop
Destiny won this debate in my feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed , God editor!!
I don't get this meme..
Memes? That's a girls name
Vivian interrupting everyone constantly and then complaining when anyone makes any interjection at all is peak comedy
1:17:07 *Vivian* “I shame people who try to engage with the right but when I go on Jesse Lee Peterson’s show it’s OK” *Wulf*
@Bob Dylan she literally said "it was good for me"......Major Hypocrite
@@neovssmith19 what do you expect from someone who thinks anyone who disagrees with her, is a white supremacist nazi? She advocates for bashing counter protestors, regardless of whether they’re causing trouble or not. Like Destiny said not long ago to her “you are a terrorist, and just like a fascist” and he’s right.
Vivian: I don't know what you're talking about
Anyone: Ok I'll explain
Vivian: I'll just keep talking over you saying I don't know what you're talking about until I gishgallop this discussion.
Vivian: Discusses hypothetical lists
Anyone: Question about said hypothetical list
Vivian: I don't know what list you're talking about
this conversation is like 95% vivian and its pain
I'm surprised vivian wasn't called out on how they kept using "we" and describing some fucking crack team of Anti-fascist professional researchers "who do it for a living and in many cases for several decades" to describe a purity tested gang of insane commies with about the level of qualification and intelligence of a fucking discord mod.
@@j.a.6310 based
Don't forget all the "fucking shit" in every sentence.
Man idk what it is, everytime I hear Vivian I feel like she's way too extreme for me. Like almost every take she has I can't agree with it, it's crazy
Yeah she begins to sound like destiny and then takes a 90° turn and goes off the deep end
Personally my issue is that she seems to try and come off like an anarchist and says she is one and argues for big democracy type things but then argues for autocratic control over the opposition which just so happens to be over 99% of the world
@@mbd251 it’s a motte and Bailey tactic. I engaged with her on twitter months ago talking about how her beleifs when it comes to opposition make her clearly an authoritarian. She had the same reaction then that she did in this stream. Just because you call yourself an anarchist doesn’t mean your actions don’t belie a different truth (possible she even believes she’s an anarchist but she doesn’t come across as such to me). The DPRK isn’t democratic, a republic, or governed by its people yet they still feel the need to use these labels as well.
Zach Spencer she thinks she’s an anarchist because she’s an anarcho-communist, but in order to get that in place you’d have to be extremely authoritarian. It’s a contradicting belief system.
@@TheDirtyFritz why could it not be democratically achieved?
I learned all my dog whistles from vaush and destiny lol
I’m confused. If Vaush and Destiny can hear the dog whistle, doesn’t that make them the dogs?
@@Old_School_293 Dog is a social construct, everybody can identify as a dog.
@@arkadipmaitra I used to love my cats, until I realized that cats are actually a social construct and then they magically poofed out of existence :(
@@HomeGymEnjoyer You are a cat. Learn to love yourself
@@arkadipmaitra Maybe the dogs and cats were just the symbolic manifestations of your gender dysphoria that we met along the way.
I can’t stop imagining that prime and vaush are in different corners of the same room because of the lighting
my theory is that prime and vaush are attached back to back by their flesh like Professor Quirrel from the first Harry Potter book and Voldemort
Vivian is out of her mind and it's almost criminal that you continue to give her a platform to reinforce her lunacy.
HOLY FUCK LMAO they were hyping up Dooby up as this nefarious character and he's just a frog vtuber
Don't know, frogs are scary man
I don't know man... You ever met a pepe poster before? mfs be crazy
Dooby's unironically a piece of shit, don't be duped so easily. Lol
@@latheredtrillionaire5701 yeah maybe, idk this person
@@latheredtrillionaire5701 explain. He seems to have a good position in the debate (I don't know him at all) and Viv just came off as an extremist.
Shout out to the person who message donated while Vivian was talking.
when was this
Timestamp?
@@jyw0000 20:46
"King Stallion donated $5.00
What the f#@k??? Prime with a Great take? A broken clock is right twice."
god that overlap of talking was actually better than viv just talking alone
Anyone notice when vaush was talking at 3:17:00 destiny was eating? Wow look at that debate tactic
classic pizza tactics
Looked like some chips and dip mmm bean dip
vivian is such a frustrating person to hear participate in group conversations. always trying to bulldoze, redundant points, projecting her perceptions to the context of other's points. ugh.
The fact people like Vivian exist and think they are righteous is scary af.
GUESS WHAT DESTINY, YOU JUST MADE THE LIST!
LMAO
But there is no list
@@aaronpeterson3838 YOU JUST MADE THE LIST
@@Bai_Su_Zhen I wanna be on the list. Can I be on the list?
@@Revelatus YOU THINK I'M GONNA PUT YOU ON THE LIST HUH? YOU REALLY THINK SO? NAAAH. YOU DON'T DESERVE TO BE ON MY LIST!
Vivian is deranged, but people's response to this is really telling. I think quite a few people were mad she was saying the quiet part out loud and it makes them look just as deranged.
“Saying the quiet part out loud”?
Do you really think Destiny is afraid to talk to anyone on the right? He's debated Fuentes and Mike Enoch and he's been on the Killstream.
@@TheShamanicHealerGodyes, most of the panel was probably very uncomfortable with the way the game was given away by Vivian. Most of what these people do is unspoken understanding between them, because to verbalize it honestly is horrific optics, and exposes their conscience to guilt, and shame. The way they operate is through vague sloganeering and moral grandstanding about how they are fighting nazis the same as the Ally’s in WW2. It’s all bullshit and they know it, what they’re really doing is making sure they silence all opposition so their cultural power grows unchallenged because they don’t want anyone exposed to opposing ideas ever so they get as many people on their team as possible which will give electoral dominance, and that’s how they get their revolution. This is the silent part they never discuss, at least in my opinion, I don’t really think this fits but there is certainly some support of doxxing, harassment, intimidation and very likely violence (how many of these people oppose antifa violence? I bet way more of them routinely obfuscate, minimize, and dismiss antifa whenever the topic comes up, which is a long deployed tactic of supporting political violence and every lesser form of violence deployed by them)
Vivian has that power tip that comes with 1800 followers and a strong echo chamber on twitter; the ability to talk as if we don't have 10ish years worth of evidence otherwise on almost all of her points must be such a warm blanket of confidence
"I've worked with antifa groups to deplatform these nazis and fascists"
Really she means she told her followers to harass someone who BTFO'd her ass on twitter. But has to frame it like she's fucking Che Guavara.
@@Winasaurus She gets like seven viewers how much of a following can she have
@@ChichiNaka Stream viewers are always low. Followers are a better indication. And when it comes to the power to deplatform, you don't even need any followers anyway, as long as you know the right kind of people willing to deplatform for anything.
I’m gonna have to add Vivian to the list with Demon Momma of people that if they’re in the panel I have to change the video.
Viv: debating these people is irresponsible
Also viv: yeah so I went on JLP’s show and still keep the video up for views
Because it increases her platform it's good. Money justifies everything. Hence... MSNBC/Fox. When money is the driving force, the words cease to have as much weight.
@@AsogiMK so Ben Shapiro is broke?
@@AsogiMK sure. But what does that have to do with it? I support people going after money, that's how our society functions - incentive. But it's not ok to say it doesn't affect what you say. Generally the less successful you are, the more honest you can afford to be - when you start having staff to pay etc, you get tempted more and more to tailor your message to what brings in the most money. You get corrupted.
On top of that she had the gall to agree with Vaush and Destiny over competent debaters doing it while talking like she should be considered anything close to a good example of a lefty.
I wouldn't trust Vivian anywhere near a spotlight, she matches every negative SJW stereotype to a T.
This conversation demonstrated that platforming Vivian is irresponsible.
Destiny arguing with debate panel: wait wait wait wait !
Vaush laughing 😂
Vaush arguing with debate panel: wait wait wait wait !
Destiny laughing 😂
Like father like son
@@andrewraby8008 I've never seen someone use they're instead of there wtf is that 🤣
I agree with Vivian that Vivian clearly needs to be de-platformed. : )
She seems like an actual fascist unironically, luckily she doesn't have political power in any sense.
@@Eclipse1983 LOL it's funny how you see that yet are blind to a majority of your side.
@@edwardrichard8093 it's funny that he hasn't even mentioned a "side that he is on" but you leap over that fact, and somersaulted with an ad hominem against an imaginary opponent.
She is fascist-light, but I do think that if she heard the actual fascist worldview, it would cause her to see parallels with herself which she would be disgusted by, so she would slowly improve over time. Or maybe she would just ignore it and talk over the person to redefine fascism and call them a fascist.
the new arc is Destiny and Vaush teaming up in random panel debates.
It is physically impossible for Vivian to speak a sentence without including the word "fucking" every other word
Let’s be honest, nobody is fucking whatever produces that voice, so the only fucking coming from that direction has to be verbal.
I've got four words for Vivian and anyone supporting "Lists"
Kraut & Tea Patebin
Anyone who ignores or doesn't learn the lessons of history is deemed to repeat it.
Literally spending the next 4 hours playing CoD and listening to this.
August, your "coming up" section. Hooks me everytime. We love you
You’ve succinctly summarized my life through COVID in one sentence
August is a girl's name
The shouting matches during the doxx list discussion really really illustrates the need for these political/philosophical speakers to have better mics/filter setups holy shit
Minimum IQ check maybe?
Good ol’ Leftist audio. :p
Part of the audio problem is that discord adjust volume whenever multiple people are talking and some people are made louder while others are made quiter and warped.
Person on the bottom left saying "fucking' 3 million times sentence is driving me bonkers dude
Vivian
@@lordhelix2760 okay? Vivian sounds annoying.
@@musashi-avi284 I was just telling you who it was.
@@lordhelix2760 Vivian of the Grey Tails...? So you work for the NOZOMI group too? Perhaps the Organization has invaded too deep. I must commence Operation Lönjdra and begin the age of chaos to stop Vivian from fucking everyone out of existence! Muah ha ha ha!
Yes, they can be harmed!
No, they shouldn't be harmed!
I'm not hiding my views, they should be harmed!
The list is just there for awareness!
I don't even have access to the list!
Wanna see the list?!
I love how everybody on the panel thinks that they are entitled to be the only one who can talk to right wing people.
Because god forbid if anybody else does it, it would be irresponsible because you would be platforming those conservative ideas.
This is such BS.
Tip if u don't call us fascist when many of us (mainly us old fashioned neo cons who pretend we never supported trump since 6/1) we will happily meet a a middle ground agreement. I,e im pro life so I'd let lefties implement a comprehensive sex ed (if u show graphic child birth show a graphic abortion and graphic STD infections) free easy birth control fuck it opt out IUDs or vasectomies (when they are more consistently reversible) and strong supportive systems for single mothers brutal child support for man whores and improved orphanages. To reduce the need for abortions to the point the necessity of the obvious evil of aborting a 10 week fetus with hearts lungs and finger prints for elective reasons is not tolerated in society.
Loved seeing destiny point out the difference on perfect and relative pitch. Very refreshing.
I was watching on my phone and legitimately thought vivian was wearing a hijab
Same
10 mins in and I’m already struggling. The problem with saying lets de-platform fascists and nazis is that these sorts of people consider anyone slightly to the right of them fascists and nazis.
I mean the guy in the top right literally said ‘bad people, like conservatives’.
What they really mean by de-platforming fascists and nazis is de-platform any one who challenges my worldview so I don’t have to listen to them speak and I can live in my bubble thinking everyone views the world like I do.
It's even funnier because fanatiq said "bully anyone who disagrees with you" and she took issue with it. But if she means nazis, and she calls everyone to her right a nazi, she really does just mean everyone she disagrees with, but she knows that comes off really badly.
But her doing that is exactly like those "I'm not racist, but..." or "I don't have an issue with black people at all. I just really take issues with THUGS and CRIMINALS and GANGSTERS." Like ok dude, say it in more words.
It's even worse than that. I'm not sure about Destiny yet, but Vaush and Vivian would love to see you dead if you're conservative. Not just deplatformed. They want you dead.
As for Destiny, I'm not sure if he would like you dead, but he sure as Hell hates conservatives with a burning passion.
This "deradicalization server" is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of.
Maybe my mindset is fucked from being too online but like, I can't see making a doxing list for any reason as anything but breaking an unwritten code. You just don't do that sorta shit
many leftists do not believe in morals when they get in the way of their goals. like how Vaush says that truth isn't important if it gets in the way of his politics being advanced
It's almost...fascist.
@@erichooper2794 Well, guess us lefties are lucky he literally didn’t say that, aye? Come on, Destiny is the biggest nuance-bro in the fucking world, and we’re literally watching him rn, so let’s apply the same standard to others.
@@alex-qd6of dare I might imply that the Nazis did similar things with similar rational
"No bad tactics. Only bad targets."
that animated lady freaked me the hell out when i noticed her
Look up “Saint Alia of the knife”
Why do people do these things?
Is she in VR or something ?
It's people like Vivian that pushed me back to the center neo lib position... Now I buy crypto
I've never heard this Viv person before but based on this conversation I find [insert correct pronoun here] reprehensible, hateful and I absolutely consider this person dangerous and possibly an enemy.
43:00 - Eris is completely right here, Mob rule and justice has taken over these spaces. What Vivan is talking about happens in other spaces as well. Right now across the states which I have seen before, local artist communties have private "black lists" run by people whos hobby or full time job (unappointed mind you) is finding out who "local predators" are, and placing them on this list with names, phone numbers, and some of them with full addresses. The people who run these lists and private groups for sharing the info do not look at any facts of evidence to the matter, and once you are placed on these list by color (yellow, red, or black), you are FOREVER there with no chance of redemption, even if you have evidence or proof against the claim.
The lists themselves aren't a terrible idea, but they are being used as mob justice with people in positions of power who are abusing those powers, at the detrimate of more innocent people then guilty.
It's killed off so many collaborating communties because it has left everyone in a state of fear. Fear for being canceled, or fear of working with someone who might be canceled.
“The lists themselves aren’t a bad idea” unless you have evidence that said person is plotting to commit crime, yes they are
God this was infuriating to listen to “yeah the list is this and that”
Ten seconds later:
“ThEREs A LIsT?!?!?”
Viv this whole debate: "right, like, fuck"
I feel like my week has been devalued now that I know there's people like Vivian in this world
Vaush was literally calling kyle rittenhouse a nazi.
Was he? When?
@@adamnestby7358 rofl
the distances vivien runs to avoid obvious questions anybody could see from half a globe away is astounding. actual competitive sports levels of dodging
Deplatforming “works” insofar as it often decreases opportunities for amplification of a figure, but it does very little to solve for the toxic cultural undercurrent which drives that figure. That’s where public debate and critical commentary/articles come into play.
In fact it amplifies it.
Also. You can only deplatform from so much. There is always alternative media that now gains more legitimacy after a particular media has engaged in deplatforming.
I'd argue that it actually reinforces the culture behind it. It gives people a martyr and a justification to push even harder against the mainstream. It also breeds massive distrust in the media and in left-wing politics. Imagine if you thought you were 100% right about a conspiracy theory but instead of people talking to you about it, debating it, or simply ignoring you... they removed you and any mention of your ideas from the public space. Do you think you'd stop believing in it or would you feel more justified than ever that you were on the right track and that there is a media conspiracy against your beliefs?
@@keggerous exactly
I don't know. Twitter banning trump seemed like a good idea since it helped shut down those anti-election discourse.
I mean trumps Twitter was basically enflaming hatred division and making America a less safe place.
The more you hate a thing, the more consumed you become, the more you begin to embody it
Unironic horseshoe theory
I don't see that many transphobes coming out as trans.
@@Spacewith2224 I mean... I see alot of homophobes acually being in the closet
@@Spacewith2224 a lot of right wingers are into like sissification and femboys aesthetics they are just obsessed with feminization
Try watching "cult of dusty" podcast sometime. Every time someone does something he doesn't like he yells "name and shame! Dox these people. Get them fired" I thought he was kind of entertaining but stuff like that became too repulsive to tolerate
Anyone who comments after this can't do the feed meme, they just didn't get here fast enough to prove it
I caught this live. Destiny livefed me 😋
@@purple7filth kinky
@@purple7filth right in his streeeaaaam
We can complain though it took too long to show up in our FFEEEEEEDDDD!
what is the feed meme
I think the most annoying and frustrating thing about this was the fact that when anyone’s talking at the same time you can’t hear fucking ANYTHING. Like it actually is just noise.
Vivian can’t form a single sentence without swearing. Sooooo annoying
we got VTUBERS we got IRISHLADDIE we got MXVIVIANWULF shit is real in this one
The avengers
@@Spacewith2224 . More like Marvels Avengers Ft. Destiny and vaush
Mx fucking, fucking sux.
who is eris tho? is she on twitch?
You misspelled Fat Ian
Watching destiny litterally de-radicalized me. Hearing Vivian speak gets me one step closer to going back
I wasn’t radicalized into the right or anything, but I had some pretty cringe beliefs about Muslims and feminism.
Listening to destiny prevented me from going any farther down that rabbit hole.
But listening to Vivian is fucking cancer oh my god. Every other word is “fucking”, and I don’t know if it’s her voice or something, but it’s super fucking grating to listen to.
@@armaan1091 Muhammad was a warlord
I really have to thank destiny for bringing me to the left, as a teenager I am self-aware about being impressionable, and luckily I was just a standard neocon, you know like shaprio, hunter avallone, nothing bad. but I still prefer being here.
I just wish the left wouldn't gatekeep as much, those with edgy humor should be welcomed in the left is they actually want good things.
I use to have some respect for some of the alt-right people but hearing them talk with Destiny and some other influencers have really shown me that a lot of them are kind of ignorant of a lot of what they talk about.
@@keggerous the twitch pseudo-intellectual community is not a good environment if you're looking for honesty
Vaush calling Styxhexenhammer a neonazi is one of the most cringe things I've ever heard.
The people like Vivian are the reason I have to watch these 4 hours over 4 days
I've only seen the first 2 hours of the debate, but from what I've seen it's Vivian defending the doxx list, and Vaush being against her? The thumbnail suggests that Vaush is the one with the list lol, seems a lil misleading mby?
Vaush is in the thumbnail for click bait.
Wouldn't be the first time the title was misleading clickbait
maybe rewatch the beginning, the impression i got was that destiny was asking vivian if he was on the list and then vaush asked the same
editor at it again with the dirty thumbnail tactics
@@declanm2783 well that's the reason it feels clickbaity. As much as it probably irks d.gg, Vaush & Destiny were more of a tag team in this discussion, but portraying it as them debating each other gets more clicks.
Wow great debate. Watched the whole thing
Ok
Amateurs, I just drag the red bar across the screen and read facial expressions to see who won the debate
Yeah I hope they have this group on again, great chemistry
1:23:30 accidental R word drop - Destiny giggling his ass off
He kinda saved it tho
@@cracky4415 Is was a reall well played save
Makes me glad that my social circles aren't radical left ones where I have to walk on eggshells with everything I say and be terrified of the repercussions of any momentary slip up.
@@sticks7857 lmao fucking truth
@@sticks7857 This guy isn’t speaking in a “social circle” at all, but in a huge public forum. He has a greater responsibility to be careful with his language. It has less to do with the political leanings of the audience than the size of the audience.
Even in a very left-leaning social circle you probably aren’t having to worry that heavily about repercussions beyond “hey man, not cool.” Unless you’re defining your “social circle” by the online communities you’re part of, those are maybe less likely to be charitable.
I love when Vaush and Destiny are in stream together.
Credit to Vivian for changing my view on at least one thing, I now believe that it is absolutely possible to overuse the word 'fuck'.
This is literally like the scene where Luscius Fox debates with Batman over using the supercomputer that could literally Dox anyone in the world at any time. Spoilers, they ended up destroying the computer, because of the moral implication of trying to _play God._
@Aaron A420 that he was mate, that he was
I mean they only destroy it after they defeat the Joker and his hoard of henchmen so... kinda defeats the purpose.
@@LiquidNCAK The use of the device was literally the straw on the camel’s back, and the turning point even for Batman. They had to actually use the technology to understand the full implication (literally the order of events for Luscius’ condemnation of such abuse of power, he hadn’t even seen it before then). They reasoned that if the technology fell into the wrong hands (like the Joker and his goons, or any of Arkham’s criminal sector), it would be catastrophic. Not to mention, Batman had already made a PERMADEATH SCRIPT to kill the machine after they used it to stop the Joker, since Batman is always making 5000 IQ plays to create contingencies for everything he hears about.
You’re basing the entire moral argument purely on its function as a plot device, which is tangential. The moral criticism still stands.
@@_The_Traveler_ Sure, the moral criticism of the NSA still stands, but I'm trying to argue that the way the movie engaged with that argument was limp. There really was very little conversation about the nature of the surveillance network. The explanation of that network only happens as Batman is already using it against the Joker, and Lucius only briefly criticizes it. And after they use it they, Fox and Batman agree to delete it but only because Batman had already planned ahead to destroy it. It's moral "conversation" that really conveniently resolves itself. And while Fox does resign, Batman is also already giving up the role as The Dark Knight, so Fox resigning has almost no significance to Batman.
I don't disagree with the premise and the reasoning, it's a direct criticism of the NSA, but it's a bad criticism because it reasons that it's often okay to use that network, such as fighting terrorists like Joker, and that people who do have that kind of power will use it responsibly, like Batman. It doesn't engage with the NSA with any real nuance.
I love vaush for quotes like “our opposition is... stupid” 😂😂
He actually genuinely believes he is smarter than 99.9% of the population. I feel bad for the guy.
Dunning-Kruger personified.
@@Goriaas I feel like most people are like that. Either way, I just like the humor of it all lol
@@Goriaas I didn't get there yet but if he's referring to the right then yeah he probably is.
Found the part, He's talking about fascists. Yes Vaush is 100% correct. 5:30 is the timestamp for anyone curious.
Vaush talking especifically about fascists: "The oposition is stupid"
Destiny "fans" that don't actually know destiny: He ThInKs hE iS SOOOO much SmArTER thaN EverYON ElsE
@@TheEndingAbyss It's his first statement (excluding the "ya didn't bring your notes")
He was talking strectily about "fascists that are so fascists everyone knows they are fascists" as defined by Vivian
This was so great to watch live, just remember if you aren't already, you will be on the list soon, they are watching.
Prime putting Vivian in her place was the greatest thing I've seen in a while.
As a conservative, I hope Vivian wins this debate. We happily welcome your deplorables
Thank you so much to whoever did the captions on this video! Very well done, I appreciate it alot.
oh shit is the fabled 4 hour snyder cut?
Truly appreciate the time stamps.
Vivian sounds unhinged and Vaush has such an annoying existence.
I disagree with Vivian and find her to be brazenly dishonest in nearly every way. However, her most annoying attribute is saying "fuck" every 2 seconds. I get wanting to put some emotional weight behind your ditzy broad notions, but it's not warranted.
"Doxxing is bad. Unless you're a neonazi and you can prove it" Vivian
Destiny? That's a list name.
Damn... imagine ONE PERSON talking for about 60 - 70% of the duration of a panel with SEVEN PEOPLE in it. And then add on to that, this ONE PERSON complains that "everyone keeps interrupting" her and "Nobody lets her speak". What a hilarious hypothetical situation, totally would NEVER happen in a real panel.... *Sarcasm intensifies*
Online politicos are a self important bunch and that’s putting it mildly.
Vivian is making a list, checking it twice, she’s going to find out who’s been naughty or nice
Hate is a strong word... But I hate Vivian, she is Dunning-Kruger.
Its a shame there's so much drama between Destiny and Vaush, I generally think they have the most sensible takes.
@Nick Bacigalupo I feel like Vaush progressively gets more sensible, though it's mostly just him parroting more and more of Destiny's takes.
"Would somebody else please talk at the same time too?" gave me a solid belly roll.
Do you think Vivian thinks she sounds smarter is she says fuck/fucking between every other word?
Viv seems like someone primed for political violence (there’s a term for that) and a plethora of excuses for said violence. An embodiment of everything that makes “center” folks get freaked out and say “I don’t want any part of whatever ‘movement’ you got going on, ‘good’ or otherwise.” And she keeps saying all the words to prove she don’t care about anything but the utopia. Disturbing stuff. But an interesting 4 hours of content.
The irony of people saying they are anti fascist and then discussing how to silence their opposition will always make me guffaw
“Fascism is when you don’t want fascists to spread their opinions” - Lycanmaster
Man I’m not the biggest Vaush fan anymore but he really was spot on with the “imagined hypocrisy” thing
@@spacejam_ki2677 Fascism is forcible suppression of opposition. I'd call preventing anyone you disagree with from speaking suppression of opposition. You can feel free to attempt to gaslight me though
@@Lycanmaster authoritarianism =\= fascism
“Gaslighting is when someone online criticized me” - Lycanmaster
So much for snowflakes being on the left