Clarifications below! Protect yours and your families privacy and support the channel by getting 20% off DeleteMe at joindeleteme.com/Ziroth CLARIFICAITONS AND CORRECTIONS: - The biggest error is the order I presented the components in. I believe the Helix coil is placed AFTER the liquid desiccant, which is sprayed into the incoming air as an aerosol to extract the water vapour as droplets. This means the centrifugal effect can efficiently remove the liquid desiccant droplets from the air, which allows water vapour to be extracted in the process. - I mentioned in a now removed clip that dehumidification is a side-effect. This is not correct as AC units were originally designed to be a dehumidifiers, however most of the 'useful' work now done is the cooling effect, as that is what people are really looking for. These were silly oversights due to rushed timelines, but I will continue to try and minimise these errors going forward.
stop your bs about carbon emissions propaganda . you are carbon. ok 1966: oil gone in 10yrs 1967: dire famine forecast by 1975 1968: overpopulation will spread worldwide 1969: everyone will disappear in a cloud of blue steam by 1989 1970: the world will use up all its natural resources by 2000, urban citizens will require gas masks by 1985, nitrogen build-up will make all land unusable, decaying pollution will kill all the fish, killer bees, ice age by 2000 and America will be subject to water rationing by 1974 and food rationing by 1980 1971: new ice age coming by 2020 or 2030 1972: new ice age by 2070 and oil depleted in 20yrs 1974: space satellites show new ice age coming fast, ozone depletion and "Great peril to life" 1976: scientific consensus planet cooling and famines imminent 1977: department of energy says oil will peak in the 90s 1978: no end in sight to 30yr cooling trend 1980: acid rain kills life in lakes and peak oil in 2000 1988: regional droughts in the 90s, temperatures in DC will hit record highs and Maldives will be underwater by 2018 1989: rising sea levels will obliterate nations if nothing is done by 2000 and New York City's West Side Highway will be underwater by 2019 1996: peak oil in 2020 2000: children won't know what snow is 2002: famine in 10yrs if we don't give up eating meat, fish and dairy and peak oil in 2010 2004: Britain will be Siberia by 2024 2005: Manhattan will be underwater by 2015 2006: super hurricanes 2008: the Arctic will be ice free by 2018 and Climate Genius Al Gore predicts an ice free Arctic by 2013 2009: Climate Genius Prince Charles says we have 96 months to save the world, UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown says we have 50 days to "save the planet from catastrophe" and Climate Genius Al Gore moves his 2013 prediction of an ice free Arctic to 2014 2013: the Arctic will be ice free by 2015 2014: only 500 days before "Climate chaos" 2018 A top climate scientist is warning that climate change will wipe out all of humanity unless we stop using fossil fuels by 2023...Greta Doomberg. 2019: Hey Greta, we need you to convince them it's really going to happen this time 2020 Greta Thunderberg global warming will cause temperatues to rise to 80 degrees celsius and drown 80% of the population. 2024 Greta still alive. 2024 WEF
@@sciteceng2hedz358 according to "Tesla owners online forum" (in the business, we call this foreshadowing) its a PhD in quote "electrical propulsion systems" (....and boom goes the dynamite). I wasnt aware you could get a PhD in just electric motors....I guess mechanical engineering to cover his multidisciplinary engineering ideals wasnt green enough? What would be good for him is .... going out side and experiencing the world. Maybe then he wouldnt do damage spreading these tech bro BS proposals that so blatantly misunderstand and misrepresent aspects ANYONE IN HIS FIELD OF STUDY (engineering) should already be familiar with enough to see through the hogwash... .... seriously, how does an engineer not know what desiccant is?!? I DO NOT want this kid designing anything I have to interact with. I can guarantee itll be fraught with design issues, god forbid it be used on flying vehicles....things are gonna fall out of the sky....
We do this already in southern usa filtering and dumping water in our homes to unload work on cooling a/c units. In the dry west they can use this knowledge & tech to cool without refrigeration but they rarely do despite all the tree hugging. These used to be a primary camper tool of cooling but isolated and alone humidifiers will only cool so many degrees under the greater environmental temp & conditions.
@dadsonworldwide3238 maybe take a look at a weather report before casting your shade redneck. "only recommended in low-humidity climates of 15% humidity or less. Areas with 30% or more humidity are not ideal for swamp coolers since they will struggle to accomplish the evaporation process in a more humid climate." I understand youve spent so much time kissing boot and licking hairy orange butthole that it never crossed your mind that there may be different climates in areas where the tallest hill is not your mom, but do you see that bit where it says 15% or less? Now, I know it must boggle the mind of someone so vacuously inexperienced in the world, however I have unfortunately pulled the short straw (dont worry, its just a piece of straw, not a branch. Im sure you're used to holding smaller things, but it is just some straw) on informing a 'i can pull up my own Huggies' big boy like yourself that there is infact a high desert, and a low desert. And here in the low desert, right up against the mountains (just like everyone in town is right up against your mom), its above 30% from May to October! You know, all the hot months one would want to cool off their houses? Hell, it stays above 15% from April to November! Im 100 miles away from the beach, and it gets wetter closer to the ocean! So, here is my question for you Mr Southern Pride (dont worry bayby, I's almost done. You can get back to your white flour here in a second, hun); with swamp coolers already being a thing in the high desert, in the few areas where it is below 15%~30% humidity (yes, even up there it can be too humid for swamp coolers to work effectively), and the population density difference of around 80%, in other words there are 5 times as many people in the low desert, where its humid when its hot than in the high desert where evaporative coolers would have any chance of working......how much of a dick do you think that tree hugging comment made you look and do you reckon that kind of attitude is why yall dont get taken seriously constantly showing your ignorance like that all bold and arrogant like, bless your little hearts? Ruminate on that for a spell would ya friend? Cuz this California redneck is fixin'a learn ya somethin, son.
I'm concerned about the long-term effects of systems that don't have properly maintained or poor performing scrubbers to remove the desiccants. We'd be breathing that in.
A multi chamber revolver desiccant cartridge system, while one chamber is absorbing another chamber is getting regenerated with waste heat, revolve on a timer.
A link to a scientific paper on this would be very helpful, I’m very skeptical. I think you got one basic point wrong at the beginning: It couldn’t be droplets of water that are being separated in the helixes, humidity is water vapor, not water droplets. I think what they’re doing is injecting water-absorbing liquid as droplets, letting it absorb the water vapor, then separating the liquid dessicant back out using the helical channels. The key is that the liquid dessicant has to have a very low recharging temperature so it can be recharged using only the A/C system’s waste heat. I dunno though, one way or another you’ve got to overcome the latent heat of evaporation of water; I don’t think there are any shortcuts for that.
Pls do a deeper dive into the helical gravity condensation process, maybe with a few example experiments? When will get to see STLs for their 3D printed filters?
First law of thermodynamics. If you've removed energy to condense moisture, it has to go somewhere. If it's not being removed, the air will be warmer (since warmer water means it'll just be free vapour again.)
So, an evaporative cooler puts moisture into the air. The evaporation cools the air but it uses lots of water. So then run the cool MOIST air through this filter and make the air even cooler and recycle the water back to the evaporative cooler. Result is extremely good cooling with only a small electrical usage for the fans.
3:33 - "This is because it requires water vapour to change phase into a liquid which is an energy intensive task" I think this is confusing because evaporation requires energy and condensation releases energy... I guess the problem is that releasing energy means more heat to deal with... this took me a long time to figure out.
A retrofit concept is going to be very challenging. Any Aircon system manufacturer will immediately kill the warranty on any system that has this on it
For basic comfort at exceptionally low cost, triply periodic minimal surfaces have been shown to reliably condense humid air. This is ideal in combination with a Maisotsenko based air chiller, which is also using geometric arrangements of channels for immensely improved thermal and hygroscopic control.
Good to see sensible ac engineers comments, water vapour molecules are lighter than air so have to be condensed to droplets by cooling. Desiccants can also collect them but the desiccant then has to be regenerated with heat energy.
So, if "preconditioned" air is dryer air, how many nosebleeds will that cause? How many people will have to run a humidifier in their homes to offset the preconditioned cold air? I get that removing moisture before cooling makes a huge, undeniable improvement in A/C systems and efficiency. And that's great. But if you've ever had dried out sinuses before, you know how much that sh*t can hurt. Just wondering.
I question this. In aviation we use something called a vortex cooler to reduce air temperature it spins the air in the cone at near supersonic speeds. It doesn't pull out water. There is something that we aren't being told about in the system.
Tl;dr: A new Filter can directly capture most of the water in an AC Unit. The rest is being absorbed by a special liquid, which regenerates using the ACs excess heat
I have a question. What if we create a 10-stages cascaded system for generating electricity out of air or ocean water based on heat pumps, which would consume no outward energy at all but only producing it? Is it possible? The system outlines are like this: - 1st stage uses open air with temperature 0 oC to generate infinite amount of energy in container C1 at temperature 20 oC, using for this half less energy taken from a common source of electricity called ComSrc; - 2nd stage uses C1 as a lower-end source to generate infinite amount of energy in container C2 at temperature 40 oC, using for this half less energy taken from a common source of electricity called ComSrc; - … - 10th stage pumps heat from the container C9 at 180 oC to the container C10 at temperature 200 oC, using half less energy taken from ComSrc; - finally we utilise the difference of 200 oC to run steam turbines at efficiency of 60% to refill the ComSrc and have a net gain of 10%, which we supply to the customers. With solid state coolers the number of stages would be 3-4 intead of 10. Is there any chance for such a system to be viable?
even if this product is a bit overblown, similar systems with stuff like MOFs already do exist, so it's just a matter of finding the right niche. I'm also interested in how this tech could help provide some of the water used in the building.
7:50 Well using centripetal force to take water out of the air explains why you have been narrowly focusing on cooling loads. A standard Energy Recovery Ventilator [ERV] is probably more flexible for heat pumps in general. In cold conditions: those micro-channels will be quickly frosted up.
The water produced in the AC system in Houston should be collected and used for toilets and other uses not requiring potable water. It would cut their municipal water use thus saving more money...
I think you got it upside down, the condensation phase change doesn't need energy, it releases energy so you need more cooling. Also I think chilled water cooling systems already avoid the condensation problem.
Dubai confuses me - don't they use ocean desalination plants for drinking water? Why not just use their AC condensation if humidity is so high? That's still less energy intensive than desalination.
Radiant cooling and heating are often overlooked opportunities to improve comfort and efficiency in temperature control. These systems work differently from conventional air conditioning or heating by focusing on how surfaces emit or absorb heat, rather than just blowing hot or cold air. For example, a room with warm air can feel comfortably cool with radiant heating, just as a room with cold air can feel comfortably warm when radiant cooling is employed.
Have a concept for atmospheric moisture harvesting, this structure would likely boost the end stage water collection up a lot. The concept already super saturates the air efficiently and uses fast flowing slightly pressurized air, so if this can dehumidify air that's below 100% saturation, then my performance figures would look really good. This would even replace both the end stage decompression nozzle, heat exchange block, and most of the collection mesh, all while simplifying the geometry and mechanical complexity. I wanna know how staging it would work and how efficient this can really be made.
"Can be retrofitted to existing systems" Yeah sure. Maybe if you're talking about only retrofitting in industrial AC. Firstly, that helix filter would surely increase air restriction. Second, the helix filter would absolutely need to be located where the condensate is collected. Putting that in an air return with the air filter would be asking for mold. Home systems using the helix filter would need to be designed with it in mind.
Umm, this spinny-filtery stuff only works for smog/fog and so humid air it is hazy. I guess along the coast of Dubai it could work but most HVAC is not in such conditions. The biggest worry though is that in general desiccant dehumidification is less efficient than condensation.
It would be nice to see these filters in practice, collecting excess water while the fans force air through the filter. Then I'll believe it works. It sounds great when you hear that the moisture could be extracted only by centrifugal force, with the help of a normal fan from the air conditioner and their filter, it sounds too good... O_o
Humidity control is extremely important for human health. More important than actual temperature (with the exception of extreme Temps). Too humid and you end up with mold, mildew, and bacteria growing on stuff which promotes allergies, unhealthy air quality, infections, food spoilage, and just generally being gross. But too dry and you end up with cracked skin and nazal passages which are excellent entry points for diseases that are airborne or spread through handling things. Just keeping humidity between 45-55% massively reduces a whole host of chronic health risks. And the best way that is indirectly managed is through the use of a properly balanced hvac system. Too large and over sized and you get nice cool air, but high humidity during the summer, or nice warm air and too dry during the winter. Too small a unit and you end up with the opposite. Most places humans live the heat and cold are not what kills you or makes you sick. It is poorly conditioned air and humidity control that causes issues.
Since air con use corelates with temperature surely there's likely sufficient solar to power the units that removing the moisture is not a critical problem.
so if the solution is to take the water out of the air, where would the system have the water go? will it need to be emptied or drip? would it put it back into the air?
finding the "Negawatts" where efficiencies can be improved. Just the helical centrifuge technology would probably be loved in tropical/equatorial regions since it might be a very efficient method to extract drinking water? A new way of providing water to a net zero building?
How does the pressure drop of the preconditioning filter affect the load on the blower? Is the increased efficiency of the cooling system offset by the potentially increased load on the blower from having such a fine preconditioning filter, and if so, by how much?
Gradually micro-dust must degrade this too. Wonder if they require periodic replacement of the tubes and any filtration capability that seperates the liquid dissicant from the captured dust and water.
Not sure where you live, but ACs removing humidity from the air is very much desirable. Unless I live in a dry desert, I always want this and it isn't "waste" for people like me.
I believe there is a Tesla patent on a conical device that rotates and wicks water up the walls, removing water and leaving vapor behind. 🤔 I'll have to find it again. I'll share it I come across it once more. ✌️ Cool video!
Fasinating technology! Are there any development to use this same technology as a water generator from air ? The need to develop a residential scale water generator system is increasing and such energy efficient concept could be a game changer.
Very interesting. Thank you. There are several technologies that don't use refrigerants you might try investigating. There were 2 companies I thought would be releasing thermoacoustic heat pumps this year, but I haven't heard anything lately.
To better explain it think of a sponge with some water in it (initial hot humid air) and then as you cool the air the sponge shrink but there is still that water in it so now it’s filled saturated to 100% humidity. This would be uncomfortable so instead the air is cooled extra so the vapor condenses and turns to water. Now you have less vapor but still 100% humidity so you heat the air back up a little and then the air can hold more water but has less water and now you have something like. 30% humidity. That extra cooling to squeeze the water out is what they are trying to get rid of. Also seems like something to do with it the air being more dense when it’s humid so more energy to cool it but that wasn’t clear .
Clogging seems its week point, mentioned grease. Wonder what their solution is or they just lifetime out. Maybe deep cleaning process. Would probably need a booster fan to help pull air, that energy to throw the water out needs to be made up somewhere, take the strain off the main fan. Ultra hepa filter. Make it translucent and fire a ultraviolet light for sterilization.
Dehumidifiers are big sellers in the UK due to our damp climate, so a technology that can cheaply remove moisture from air could have a big market in that space. Drying out the air also reduces heating load and makes lower temperatures less uncomfortable, so you can turn the thermostat down. This could also be really bad news for sellers of mould removal products...
Homes aren't built to be as efficient as people think. The insulation value of a 6" thick wall isn't enough, Wall thickness of 16" when insulated properly would radically improve home efficiency.
All very cool and all, but when are home owners going to see this tech? Probably will be quite a long time. Meanwhile, there are systems that us DIY'ers could build that do similar things. Take a lot of calcium chloride and put it in a container. Insulate that container in a way that slows down thermal exchange, but allows vapor exchange (combo of perforated IR reflectors with hydrophobic thermal insulation [like siliconized polyester batt aka Climashield Apex, or multiple layers of polypropylene fabric] around the container). Into that container put a very large heat pipe and insulate the part of it that comes out of the insulated container. That heat pipe goes out an insulated window insert to the outside. The part outside is not insulated and readily allows thermal exchange with the ambient. As the calcium chloride absorbs moisture from inside the house, it heats up, but the thermal insulation keeps most of that heat contained within the container and then the large heat pipe helps to remove that heat to the outside (the copper of the heat pipe, will probably have to have a thin layer of some kind of coating to reduce being corroded). The downside of the above, is that you will have to always have two containers of calcium chloride. One dried and one actively absorbing moisture. When the one container being used becomes too moisture ladened, it will need to be taken outside to a Solar heater to regenerate it by driving off the moisture (that could be as simple as a very large surface area "pan" painted black with visible light and IR reflectors around it). Or you could also use a Solar distiller to separate and collect the water from the calcium chloride, and then use that water to spray the condenser coils etc of the AC unit. But this is a low cost, easy to DIY way to remove moisture from the house (especially at night while the ambient temps are lower but the humidity is higher). The rest will be done by the AC system, but as mentioned in this video, removing some of the humidity inside will help to make it more energy efficient and work less hard. You can also get away with not setting the thermostat as low, because as noted by others, once the humidity drops to a certain point, comfort goes way up.
It is not that simple cooling requires work because you are fundamentally reversing entropy and that does not happen naturally,there are ways of making this more efficient by have a higher than usual heat capacity refrigerant also by splitting you compressor cycle into several steps having intercoolers between each step thereby reducing back pressure and still attaining compression.There is also the possibility of a novel system of pressure reduction that can regain some of the power rather than using a valve.
Real world applications would see a very small to negative benefit as they haven't considered that the AC room is an enclosed space and so a conventional AC system may initially is not efficient in a humid room, the efficiency is eventually regained as humidity is continuously removed from the room. So efficiency would become the same eventually for a precondition air Vs conventional AC system.
Replace the expansion valve with a Tesla Turbine. Use variable refrigerants based on temperature. Pre-condition air, as stated in this video These 3 changes will net HUGE efficiency gains, idk why there's nobody doing this aside from the monthly cost isn't high enough to justify entirely new manufacturing supply chains.
Hi GOOD CONCEPT. by using a silica or similar to dry the air before passing through the evaporator then transport it to the condensing area to be dried using a HOT pipe and then transport it back to start all over again. If you say this could save 50% in running cost i would think around 10% for transport. now the drying container would be very long and open top for moisture to escape plus this water could add to taking heat from the condenser.I dont think this could be fitted to existing domestic systems but commercial YES DOWN UNDER DAVE ps I have already built one in my mind
I think helix's overselling. Most homes need a dehumidifier for the shoulder seasons. They should just market this as a cheaper more efficient dehumidifier. If it can't outcompete traditional inline dehumidifiers then it's not useful.
Ok so they claim this will make air-conditioning more efficient. But how well will it handle the high humidity we get here in Queensland? (and in many other places around the world) And how much will this add to the already-high cost of buying and installing a regular old air-conditioner?
Humid air isn’t full of droplets, it’s full of vapor. It’s gas. A centrifugal separator stratifies gases based on their density. Water vapor is denser than dry air. It’s not accurate that they’re “catching droplets”. This is also pointless because the cooled, dried air will just mix with ambient humidity air and condense the water vapor. Also it’s hygroscopic, not hydroscopic.
Inspiring and reassuring. With or without manmade warming, the globe is expected to get hotter just based on extrapolating ice core data, so we're gonna need all the cooling tech we can invent!
thats going to be a big pressure drop, and thats not free, this only applies to room side of the two cooling loops, so is dependant on how much moisture that is mostly made by humans, usually very little make up air is introduced from outside and why can't I 3d print my own?
So the "thing" in this is good old air-liquid centrifugal separator, tech from, i don't know, before you were born? I think i have one in my air compressor, some of them use a vortex to do that. How long did you actually research this? I found these things out in few minutes, about 1/5 of the time it took to watch this video to find the sauce.
Where I live, I am using AC mostly for heating (8 months vs 2 months for cooling). Does it mean raising humidity will keep the house warmer? Will it not create molds as well?
I am in the planning phase of building a house. I have chosen the technology of a frame house, and the filling of the walls is hempcrete. Hempcrete, despite the lime as an ingredient, has a negative CO2 balance, because hemp grows very quickly and absorbs huge amounts of CO2. Hempcrete is also a great insulator. I hope that the insulation will be enough and I will not need cooling in the summer.
Skip to (starts at) 7:45. If they make humid air dry - they are going to spend the same amount of energy to do so. Regardless of nano magic. "Air with droplets" (e.g. a cloud) and "humid air" are not the same thing.
Clarifications below! Protect yours and your families privacy and support the channel by getting 20% off DeleteMe at joindeleteme.com/Ziroth
CLARIFICAITONS AND CORRECTIONS:
- The biggest error is the order I presented the components in. I believe the Helix coil is placed AFTER the liquid desiccant, which is sprayed into the incoming air as an aerosol to extract the water vapour as droplets. This means the centrifugal effect can efficiently remove the liquid desiccant droplets from the air, which allows water vapour to be extracted in the process.
- I mentioned in a now removed clip that dehumidification is a side-effect. This is not correct as AC units were originally designed to be a dehumidifiers, however most of the 'useful' work now done is the cooling effect, as that is what people are really looking for.
These were silly oversights due to rushed timelines, but I will continue to try and minimise these errors going forward.
stop your bs about carbon emissions propaganda . you are carbon. ok
1966: oil gone in 10yrs
1967: dire famine forecast by 1975
1968: overpopulation will spread worldwide
1969: everyone will disappear in a cloud of blue steam by 1989
1970: the world will use up all its natural resources by 2000, urban citizens will require gas masks by 1985, nitrogen build-up will make all land unusable, decaying pollution will kill all the fish, killer bees, ice age by 2000 and America will be subject to water rationing by 1974 and food rationing by 1980
1971: new ice age coming by 2020 or 2030
1972: new ice age by 2070 and oil depleted in 20yrs
1974: space satellites show new ice age coming fast, ozone depletion and "Great peril to life"
1976: scientific consensus planet cooling and famines imminent
1977: department of energy says oil will peak in the 90s
1978: no end in sight to 30yr cooling trend
1980: acid rain kills life in lakes and peak oil in 2000
1988: regional droughts in the 90s, temperatures in DC will hit record highs and Maldives will be underwater by 2018
1989: rising sea levels will obliterate nations if nothing is done by 2000 and New York City's West Side Highway will be underwater by 2019
1996: peak oil in 2020
2000: children won't know what snow is
2002: famine in 10yrs if we don't give up eating meat, fish and dairy and peak oil in 2010
2004: Britain will be Siberia by 2024
2005: Manhattan will be underwater by 2015
2006: super hurricanes
2008: the Arctic will be ice free by 2018 and Climate Genius Al Gore predicts an ice free Arctic by 2013
2009: Climate Genius Prince Charles says we have 96 months to save the world, UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown says we have 50 days to "save the planet from catastrophe" and Climate Genius Al Gore moves his 2013 prediction of an ice free Arctic to 2014
2013: the Arctic will be ice free by 2015
2014: only 500 days before "Climate chaos"
2018 A top climate scientist is warning that climate change will wipe out all of humanity unless we stop using fossil fuels by 2023...Greta Doomberg.
2019: Hey Greta, we need you to convince them it's really going to happen this time
2020 Greta Thunderberg global warming will cause temperatues to rise to 80 degrees celsius and drown 80% of the population.
2024 Greta still alive.
2024 WEF
@@sciteceng2hedz358 according to "Tesla owners online forum" (in the business, we call this foreshadowing) its a PhD in quote "electrical propulsion systems" (....and boom goes the dynamite).
I wasnt aware you could get a PhD in just electric motors....I guess mechanical engineering to cover his multidisciplinary engineering ideals wasnt green enough? What would be good for him is .... going out side and experiencing the world. Maybe then he wouldnt do damage spreading these tech bro BS proposals that so blatantly misunderstand and misrepresent aspects ANYONE IN HIS FIELD OF STUDY (engineering) should already be familiar with enough to see through the hogwash...
.... seriously, how does an engineer not know what desiccant is?!?
I DO NOT want this kid designing anything I have to interact with. I can guarantee itll be fraught with design issues, god forbid it be used on flying vehicles....things are gonna fall out of the sky....
We do this already in southern usa filtering and dumping water in our homes to unload work on cooling a/c units.
In the dry west they can use this knowledge & tech to cool without refrigeration but they rarely do despite all the tree hugging.
These used to be a primary camper tool of cooling but isolated and alone humidifiers will only cool so many degrees under the greater environmental temp & conditions.
@dadsonworldwide3238 maybe take a look at a weather report before casting your shade redneck.
"only recommended in low-humidity climates of 15% humidity or less. Areas with 30% or more humidity are not ideal for swamp coolers since they will struggle to accomplish the evaporation process in a more humid climate."
I understand youve spent so much time kissing boot and licking hairy orange butthole that it never crossed your mind that there may be different climates in areas where the tallest hill is not your mom, but do you see that bit where it says 15% or less? Now, I know it must boggle the mind of someone so vacuously inexperienced in the world, however I have unfortunately pulled the short straw (dont worry, its just a piece of straw, not a branch. Im sure you're used to holding smaller things, but it is just some straw) on informing a 'i can pull up my own Huggies' big boy like yourself that there is infact a high desert, and a low desert.
And here in the low desert, right up against the mountains (just like everyone in town is right up against your mom), its above 30% from May to October! You know, all the hot months one would want to cool off their houses? Hell, it stays above 15% from April to November! Im 100 miles away from the beach, and it gets wetter closer to the ocean!
So, here is my question for you Mr Southern Pride (dont worry bayby, I's almost done. You can get back to your white flour here in a second, hun); with swamp coolers already being a thing in the high desert, in the few areas where it is below 15%~30% humidity (yes, even up there it can be too humid for swamp coolers to work effectively), and the population density difference of around 80%, in other words there are 5 times as many people in the low desert, where its humid when its hot than in the high desert where evaporative coolers would have any chance of working......how much of a dick do you think that tree hugging comment made you look and do you reckon that kind of attitude is why yall dont get taken seriously constantly showing your ignorance like that all bold and arrogant like, bless your little hearts?
Ruminate on that for a spell would ya friend? Cuz this California redneck is fixin'a learn ya somethin, son.
I'm concerned about the long-term effects of systems that don't have properly maintained or poor performing scrubbers to remove the desiccants. We'd be breathing that in.
It takes great skill to make a 3 min topic into a full blown 20 min video
25 cm of Rockwool will help more to stabilize temperature without electricity bill. The color of the roof also affects temperature significantly.
Can you imagine how clean the incoming air would need to be!
I'm filing this video along with those adverts for plug-in 1 watt heaters that will heat my entire house for a penny a day.
glad to see 90% comments negative here showing attention being paid, save me the trouble !
14:25 and Wa Ching is thanking you as well
A multi chamber revolver desiccant cartridge system, while one chamber is absorbing another chamber is getting regenerated with waste heat, revolve on a timer.
I run a dehumidifier in close proximity to my return for AC. Makes a difference and doesn’t need nasa tech.
Using the waste heat from phase change cooling system to drive evaporation in an absorption cooling system is I have to say " pretty cool stuff "
A link to a scientific paper on this would be very helpful, I’m very skeptical.
I think you got one basic point wrong at the beginning: It couldn’t be droplets of water that are being separated in the helixes, humidity is water vapor, not water droplets.
I think what they’re doing is injecting water-absorbing liquid as droplets, letting it absorb the water vapor, then separating the liquid dessicant back out using the helical channels. The key is that the liquid dessicant has to have a very low recharging temperature so it can be recharged using only the A/C system’s waste heat.
I dunno though, one way or another you’ve got to overcome the latent heat of evaporation of water; I don’t think there are any shortcuts for that.
1:43
Wooo Portugal, let's gooooooo
Pls do a deeper dive into the helical gravity condensation process, maybe with a few example experiments?
When will get to see STLs for their 3D printed filters?
First law of thermodynamics. If you've removed energy to condense moisture, it has to go somewhere. If it's not being removed, the air will be warmer (since warmer water means it'll just be free vapour again.)
Maybe spinning to remove water from a solid desicant instead of heat.
So, an evaporative cooler puts moisture into the air. The evaporation cools the air but it uses lots of water.
So then run the cool MOIST air through this filter and make the air even cooler and recycle the water back to the evaporative cooler.
Result is extremely good cooling with only a small electrical usage for the fans.
Yeah waste heat integration in retrofitted systems sounds tricky… I hope it succeeds!
3:33 - "This is because it requires water vapour to change phase into a liquid which is an energy intensive task"
I think this is confusing because evaporation requires energy and condensation releases energy... I guess the problem is that releasing energy means more heat to deal with... this took me a long time to figure out.
A retrofit concept is going to be very challenging.
Any Aircon system manufacturer will immediately kill the warranty on any system that has this on it
For basic comfort at exceptionally low cost, triply periodic minimal surfaces have been shown to reliably condense humid air. This is ideal in combination with a Maisotsenko based air chiller, which is also using geometric arrangements of channels for immensely improved thermal and hygroscopic control.
Pushing air through a filter will cost energy too, so in dry air (up to about 40 to 50%) the system will cost more energy as without.
Good to see sensible ac engineers comments, water vapour molecules are lighter than air so have to be condensed to droplets by cooling. Desiccants can also collect them but the desiccant then has to be regenerated with heat energy.
Would like you to make a video on solid-state cooling
The problem is that we're always heating something or cooling something instead moving the heat only to where, and when, you want it.
8:52 "You can take the shoes out of the box now"
So, if "preconditioned" air is dryer air, how many nosebleeds will that cause? How many people will have to run a humidifier in their homes to offset the preconditioned cold air? I get that removing moisture before cooling makes a huge, undeniable improvement in A/C systems and efficiency. And that's great. But if you've ever had dried out sinuses before, you know how much that sh*t can hurt. Just wondering.
"You can never know enough about what you don't know"
Waiting for it to be a consumer electronic product by the year 2290.
I question this. In aviation we use something called a vortex cooler to reduce air temperature it spins the air in the cone at near supersonic speeds. It doesn't pull out water. There is something that we aren't being told about in the system.
Tl;dr: A new Filter can directly capture most of the water in an AC Unit. The rest is being absorbed by a special liquid, which regenerates using the ACs excess heat
I have a question. What if we create a 10-stages cascaded system for generating electricity out of air or ocean water based on heat pumps, which would consume no outward energy at all but only producing it? Is it possible? The system outlines are like this:
- 1st stage uses open air with temperature 0 oC to generate infinite amount of energy in container C1 at temperature 20 oC, using for this half less energy taken from a common source of electricity called ComSrc;
- 2nd stage uses C1 as a lower-end source to generate infinite amount of energy in container C2 at temperature 40 oC, using for this half less energy taken from a common source of electricity called ComSrc;
- …
- 10th stage pumps heat from the container C9 at 180 oC to the container C10 at temperature 200 oC, using half less energy taken from ComSrc;
- finally we utilise the difference of 200 oC to run steam turbines at efficiency of 60% to refill the ComSrc and have a net gain of 10%, which we supply to the customers.
With solid state coolers the number of stages would be 3-4 intead of 10.
Is there any chance for such a system to be viable?
even if this product is a bit overblown, similar systems with stuff like MOFs already do exist, so it's just a matter of finding the right niche. I'm also interested in how this tech could help provide some of the water used in the building.
Munters air dryer tech ..
The heat of restitution can be the condenser heat
7:50 Well using centripetal force to take water out of the air explains why you have been narrowly focusing on cooling loads.
A standard Energy Recovery Ventilator [ERV] is probably more flexible for heat pumps in general.
In cold conditions: those micro-channels will be quickly frosted up.
The water produced in the AC system in Houston should be collected and used for toilets and other uses not requiring potable water. It would cut their municipal water use thus saving more money...
I think you got it upside down, the condensation phase change doesn't need energy, it releases energy so you need more cooling.
Also I think chilled water cooling systems already avoid the condensation problem.
Dubai confuses me - don't they use ocean desalination plants for drinking water? Why not just use their AC condensation if humidity is so high? That's still less energy intensive than desalination.
Radiant cooling and heating are often overlooked opportunities to improve comfort and efficiency in temperature control. These systems work differently from conventional air conditioning or heating by focusing on how surfaces emit or absorb heat, rather than just blowing hot or cold air. For example, a room with warm air can feel comfortably cool with radiant heating, just as a room with cold air can feel comfortably warm when radiant cooling is employed.
Hopefully the advancement of photonic chips will lessen the global heat-dispelling requirements of computing.
Have a concept for atmospheric moisture harvesting, this structure would likely boost the end stage water collection up a lot.
The concept already super saturates the air efficiently and uses fast flowing slightly pressurized air, so if this can dehumidify air that's below 100% saturation, then my performance figures would look really good. This would even replace both the end stage decompression nozzle, heat exchange block, and most of the collection mesh, all while simplifying the geometry and mechanical complexity.
I wanna know how staging it would work and how efficient this can really be made.
This concept was covered by Tech Ingredients a while ago.
Is the Peltier effect being used anywhere?
I have solar panels so I never used grid electricity for cooling, just solar.
"Can be retrofitted to existing systems"
Yeah sure. Maybe if you're talking about only retrofitting in industrial AC. Firstly, that helix filter would surely increase air restriction. Second, the helix filter would absolutely need to be located where the condensate is collected. Putting that in an air return with the air filter would be asking for mold.
Home systems using the helix filter would need to be designed with it in mind.
Corrosive liquid desiccant? Definitely sounds like sulfuric acid. Anyway, I very much like the dehumidifying of aircon.
Umm, this spinny-filtery stuff only works for smog/fog and so humid air it is hazy.
I guess along the coast of Dubai it could work but most HVAC is not in such conditions.
The biggest worry though is that in general desiccant dehumidification is less efficient than condensation.
3:34 What? - Turing water vapor to liquid does NOT REQUIRE ENERGY but releases it.
It would be nice to see these filters in practice, collecting excess water while the fans force air through the filter. Then I'll believe it works. It sounds great when you hear that the moisture could be extracted only by centrifugal force, with the help of a normal fan from the air conditioner and their filter, it sounds too good... O_o
Humidity control is extremely important for human health. More important than actual temperature (with the exception of extreme Temps). Too humid and you end up with mold, mildew, and bacteria growing on stuff which promotes allergies, unhealthy air quality, infections, food spoilage, and just generally being gross. But too dry and you end up with cracked skin and nazal passages which are excellent entry points for diseases that are airborne or spread through handling things. Just keeping humidity between 45-55% massively reduces a whole host of chronic health risks. And the best way that is indirectly managed is through the use of a properly balanced hvac system. Too large and over sized and you get nice cool air, but high humidity during the summer, or nice warm air and too dry during the winter. Too small a unit and you end up with the opposite.
Most places humans live the heat and cold are not what kills you or makes you sick. It is poorly conditioned air and humidity control that causes issues.
I would like an in-home AC of this type. When will that happen?
Brilliant! Bring it on!
So hot liquid desiccant will introduce heat back into the system?
It would be great if it works but only time will tell.
Damn, Ziroth sprukes viable technology for once
The OEMs would really rather the system fail and need replacement sooner rather than later.
I'm jumping out halfway through. Still haven't heard anything of the breakthrough.
Since air con use corelates with temperature surely there's likely sufficient solar to power the units that removing the moisture is not a critical problem.
The future of cooling is in electronic way
so if the solution is to take the water out of the air, where would the system have the water go? will it need to be emptied or drip? would it put it back into the air?
finding the "Negawatts" where efficiencies can be improved. Just the helical centrifuge technology would probably be loved in tropical/equatorial regions since it might be a very efficient method to extract drinking water? A new way of providing water to a net zero building?
How does the pressure drop of the preconditioning filter affect the load on the blower? Is the increased efficiency of the cooling system offset by the potentially increased load on the blower from having such a fine preconditioning filter, and if so, by how much?
If it can reduce humidity more efficiently than current dehumidifiers without the added heat,that would be great!
Gradually micro-dust must degrade this too. Wonder if they require periodic replacement of the tubes and any filtration capability that seperates the liquid dissicant from the captured dust and water.
Using waste heat for work is about the sexiest thing in the world.
Not sure where you live, but ACs removing humidity from the air is very much desirable. Unless I live in a dry desert, I always want this and it isn't "waste" for people like me.
I believe there is a Tesla patent on a conical device that rotates and wicks water up the walls, removing water and leaving vapor behind. 🤔 I'll have to find it again. I'll share it I come across it once more. ✌️ Cool video!
Fasinating technology! Are there any development to use this same technology as a water generator from air ? The need to develop a residential scale water generator system is increasing and such energy efficient concept could be a game changer.
Very interesting. Thank you. There are several technologies that don't use refrigerants you might try investigating. There were 2 companies I thought would be releasing thermoacoustic heat pumps this year, but I haven't heard anything lately.
To better explain it think of a sponge with some water in it (initial hot humid air) and then as you cool the air the sponge shrink but there is still that water in it so now it’s filled saturated to 100% humidity. This would be uncomfortable so instead the air is cooled extra so the vapor condenses and turns to water. Now you have less vapor but still 100% humidity so you heat the air back up a little and then the air can hold more water but has less water and now you have something like. 30% humidity. That extra cooling to squeeze the water out is what they are trying to get rid of. Also seems like something to do with it the air being more dense when it’s humid so more energy to cool it but that wasn’t clear .
Clogging seems its week point, mentioned grease. Wonder what their solution is or they just lifetime out. Maybe deep cleaning process. Would probably need a booster fan to help pull air, that energy to throw the water out needs to be made up somewhere, take the strain off the main fan. Ultra hepa filter.
Make it translucent and fire a ultraviolet light for sterilization.
Dehumidifiers are big sellers in the UK due to our damp climate, so a technology that can cheaply remove moisture from air could have a big market in that space. Drying out the air also reduces heating load and makes lower temperatures less uncomfortable, so you can turn the thermostat down. This could also be really bad news for sellers of mould removal products...
Homes aren't built to be as efficient as people think. The insulation value of a 6" thick wall isn't enough, Wall thickness of 16" when insulated properly would radically improve home efficiency.
All very cool and all, but when are home owners going to see this tech? Probably will be quite a long time. Meanwhile, there are systems that us DIY'ers could build that do similar things.
Take a lot of calcium chloride and put it in a container. Insulate that container in a way that slows down thermal exchange, but allows vapor exchange (combo of perforated IR reflectors with hydrophobic thermal insulation [like siliconized polyester batt aka Climashield Apex, or multiple layers of polypropylene fabric] around the container). Into that container put a very large heat pipe and insulate the part of it that comes out of the insulated container.
That heat pipe goes out an insulated window insert to the outside. The part outside is not insulated and readily allows thermal exchange with the ambient.
As the calcium chloride absorbs moisture from inside the house, it heats up, but the thermal insulation keeps most of that heat contained within the container and then the large heat pipe helps to remove that heat to the outside (the copper of the heat pipe, will probably have to have a thin layer of some kind of coating to reduce being corroded).
The downside of the above, is that you will have to always have two containers of calcium chloride. One dried and one actively absorbing moisture. When the one container being used becomes too moisture ladened, it will need to be taken outside to a Solar heater to regenerate it by driving off the moisture (that could be as simple as a very large surface area "pan" painted black with visible light and IR reflectors around it).
Or you could also use a Solar distiller to separate and collect the water from the calcium chloride, and then use that water to spray the condenser coils etc of the AC unit.
But this is a low cost, easy to DIY way to remove moisture from the house (especially at night while the ambient temps are lower but the humidity is higher). The rest will be done by the AC system, but as mentioned in this video, removing some of the humidity inside will help to make it more energy efficient and work less hard. You can also get away with not setting the thermostat as low, because as noted by others, once the humidity drops to a certain point, comfort goes way up.
It is not that simple cooling requires work because you are fundamentally reversing entropy and that does not happen naturally,there are ways of making this more efficient by have a higher than usual heat capacity refrigerant also by splitting you compressor cycle into several steps having intercoolers between each step thereby reducing back pressure and still attaining compression.There is also the possibility of a novel system of pressure reduction that can regain some of the power rather than using a valve.
If it can reduce humidity more efficiently then a dehumidifier and not heat the air it would have a market as such.
Great video bro
if i recall from another video the first ac was installed to lower humidity in a printing facility… pesky humidity 🙂
Real world applications would see a very small to negative benefit as they haven't considered that the AC room is an enclosed space and so a conventional AC system may initially is not efficient in a humid room, the efficiency is eventually regained as humidity is continuously removed from the room. So efficiency would become the same eventually for a precondition air Vs conventional AC system.
Replace the expansion valve with a Tesla Turbine.
Use variable refrigerants based on temperature.
Pre-condition air, as stated in this video
These 3 changes will net HUGE efficiency gains, idk why there's nobody doing this aside from the monthly cost isn't high enough to justify entirely new manufacturing supply chains.
How clean must the air be? Is cleaning it easy?
The graph you posted showing a 50% increase in efficiency is not correct it's more like 5% in a place like Dubai
Hi GOOD CONCEPT. by using a silica or similar to dry the air before passing through the evaporator then transport it to the condensing area to be dried using a HOT pipe and then transport it back to start all over again. If you say this could save 50% in running cost i would think around 10% for transport. now the drying container would be very long and open top for moisture to escape plus this water could add to taking heat from the condenser.I dont think this could be fitted to existing domestic systems but commercial YES DOWN UNDER DAVE ps I have already built one in my mind
I think helix's overselling. Most homes need a dehumidifier for the shoulder seasons. They should just market this as a cheaper more efficient dehumidifier. If it can't outcompete traditional inline dehumidifiers then it's not useful.
" Houston do you copy? 🥶 Patent? "
Ok so they claim this will make air-conditioning more efficient. But how well will it handle the high humidity we get here in Queensland? (and in many other places around the world) And how much will this add to the already-high cost of buying and installing a regular old air-conditioner?
Why does every electronic you buy from Amazon, brake after 30 days???
(it’s a sincere question)
Your 66% is wrong, AC systems have already high efficiency, higher than 60%.
Humid air isn’t full of droplets, it’s full of vapor. It’s gas. A centrifugal separator stratifies gases based on their density. Water vapor is denser than dry air.
It’s not accurate that they’re “catching droplets”. This is also pointless because the cooled, dried air will just mix with ambient humidity air and condense the water vapor.
Also it’s hygroscopic, not hydroscopic.
You haven't explained how the pre-filter condenses the water in the first place to remove it from the air.
Inspiring and reassuring. With or without manmade warming, the globe is expected to get hotter just based on extrapolating ice core data, so we're gonna need all the cooling tech we can invent!
Combine your ac-system with solar power. When heat load is high due to sun shine your ac-system will run for free.
I thought that humid air is less dense than dry air?
lets just pull a spaceballs on our own planet
thats going to be a big pressure drop, and thats not free, this only applies to room side of the two cooling loops, so is dependant on how much moisture that is mostly made by humans, usually very little make up air is introduced from outside
and why can't I 3d print my own?
11:51 using a euro bill texture for an American mall is funny
So the "thing" in this is good old air-liquid centrifugal separator, tech from, i don't know, before you were born? I think i have one in my air compressor, some of them use a vortex to do that. How long did you actually research this? I found these things out in few minutes, about 1/5 of the time it took to watch this video to find the sauce.
Why are you heating the house but you are not heating yourself?
Where I live, I am using AC mostly for heating (8 months vs 2 months for cooling). Does it mean raising humidity will keep the house warmer? Will it not create molds as well?
does this mean i can finally underpay my hvac guy
I am in the planning phase of building a house. I have chosen the technology of a frame house, and the filling of the walls is hempcrete. Hempcrete, despite the lime as an ingredient, has a negative CO2 balance, because hemp grows very quickly and absorbs huge amounts of CO2. Hempcrete is also a great insulator. I hope that the insulation will be enough and I will not need cooling in the summer.
Skip to (starts at) 7:45. If they make humid air dry - they are going to spend the same amount of energy to do so. Regardless of nano magic. "Air with droplets" (e.g. a cloud) and "humid air" are not the same thing.