Psychologist here. One thing I've noticed about most cults -- their initial teachings, activities, or workshops are based on real psychological practices. Essentially, the cult provides a form of therapy, which works in the short-term. So, their members may see real improvements in their lives (just like Sarah getting more acting roles). This process can hook them, which makes them susceptible to brain washing -- and, then, things start to slowly get worse over time.
I've always understood that this is how people join religious cults... the offer of friendship and compassion, then they realise if they don't conform they risk losing these now co-dependant benefits...😢
@@alexanderchaves4875 they promise things like making your life great again, they promise great things in the future, they claim they will protect you, they encourage you to disassociate from friends and loved ones, they demonize anything that isn't their teachings, they tell you that anyone who questions their ideals is the enemy, they tell you that your in constant danger and they alone can protect you, they claim to have achieved things they really didn't.... Just like trump.
She did go to the FBI first they ignored it so it is good she wasn't detered from still attempting to tell her story although the the accused sent the Vancouver police to harrass her. It's treated as a crime to report crime apparently. Those gymnasts and victims of Nassar condemned the FBI in Congress too for ignoring them it's another niave sense of false security victims have that police or law enforcement will help them I often wonder how they pretended not to know about Epstein or Weinstein either seemed so obvious they must be willfully ignorant much of the time and the metoo movement exposed 20% of reported sexual assaults get dismissed automatically as "unfounded" and are not investigated in Canada according to investigative journalist Robyn Doolittle in 2017. Lots of victim blaming goes on regarding crimes police are either overworked or apathetic which emboldens perpetrators.
@annalisavajda252 Sorry, I didn't clarify my comment. What I meant by "didn't wait", is she didn't wait (very long) for the FBI to take action. They would've needed to collect evidence and done their own investigation and it would've taken months for anything to begin happening. It seems like within the first week or so, she decided to just go straight to the news.
@@BewareTheLilyOfTheValley If you followed the case, the cult members had to provide most of the evidence. It took many people to get this cult stopped and it required money.
@@annalisavajda252The FBI is smug about everyday people who seek assistance, due to crimes perpetrated against them. I also have experienced this. BTW the description of what Ranieri did, weaponizing the police against his victim sounds like targeting to me. EXPERIENCE
I took a course in university on cults (NRMs) and she was the guest speaker for a lot of our lectures. Really really awesome guest, and actually co-taught a course the next semester with my prof. What happened in this 30 minute video actually happened over the course of many years. It sounds crazy that some of these steps were taken, however when they happen so slowly and everyone around you normalizes it, you don’t even realize what’s happening until it’s too late. Glad she continues to warn people about the dangers of cults.
The asmr community is partially a criminal organization that works like a cult. Hackin folks against their will for roleplay. Humiliating them and some even blackmail listeners into compliance and into shutting up about it. Not all artists do it ofc. But when they talk about "we all float down here", u can be sure they part of that cult. Brainwashin and manipulation at its finest and at the cost + exploitation of ppl's mental health. Beware.
Yup it's the downside of us being able to higher thought. If we were purely instinctual creatures, we'd run. But we aren't. I really enjoy how she explains the faults and bad decisions she made, but gives context as to why@@milliemino8424
"Are you cutting off parts of yourself to feel like you belong?" This is the top sign that a person is in a toxic friendship, social circle, or religious group. The worst of the worst always play on self-esteem and validation issues. Getting you to 'deny' yourself is how they can coerce you to do things that harm the authenticity of self and others. Trying to get someone to like you who tells you you arent good enough unless you do everything they want, is a fast track toward a manipulative controlling situation.
Yes! love this, great way to put it. I’ve also heard “if your life is getting smaller while theirs is maintaining or growing, you’re in trouble” when referring to abuse/toxic/cult relationships, which I also think is a useful heuristic
Sarah is an articulate and erudite communicator who clearly understands this subject. And she helped put a cult-leader in prison for 120-years. All power to her. Incredible woman.
@@SudiB777 NXIVM, like other similar cults, turn recruits into recruiters in a very short space of time. I am always baffled when a comment like this pops up singling out an individual. I ask myself is this person commenting coming from a place of understanding cults? Or is this person someone who wishes to punish someone who brought down a cult because sitting in their mum's basement prevents them fulfilling their true godlike potential.
@@yeskaitlyn8029 yes, political cults are NOT different from religious or commercial ones. Crypto bros are the same thing as MLM, come on, NFTs were just Herbalife for men, and any populist with cult following is not much different from a guru.
When Mark Vicente said in The Vow "No one joins a cult. They join a good thing." I understood just how insidious and prolific cults or culty organizations are in our lives because it's true; no one ever thinks they're joining a cult, something inherently abusive, and no one can convince them that they are sending themselves down the wrong path. Those of you seeing similarities with the corporate world, think about that. Seriously. Take some time to *really* learn about cults, not just the notorious ones, and you'll be able to truly protect yourself from having your goodness taken advantage of to perpetuate harm.
Yeah. Its like when people go "I would never join a cult". No, you wouldnt. But you may join what you think is a great group with lots of friendly people who talk about interesting things. Indoctrination and control is a slow process. If they ramped up the heavy pressure and control immediately youd flee like the proverbial frog dropped in hot water. Instead, they wait till youre financially and socially involved. Sunk cost fallacy is a big thing too.
Depending on your definition, the cult may not even control every aspect of your life, it may just be a scheme to get you to buy things. Pyramid schemes, the companies you work for, even gyms and dieting can have cult-life behavior.
Very courageous of her to tell her story on such a large platform. It’s clear she is uncomfortable reliving these experiences so going through this to shine a light on her specific abusers and highlight the broader techniques in order to educate others is incredibly commendable. Fair play
@@SarahEdmondsonActor Sarah has done a lot of important work, but there’s a troubling side to her. While many other survivors of Nxivm have come forward with their stories, Sarah has been dismissive of their testimonies-particularly because she’s chosen to make amends with some of the very people who perpetuated the abuse. I used to be an avid listener of her podcast, but lately, I can’t shake the unsettling feeling that she’s starting to build a little cult of her own. It’s as if she's creating an environment where only her narrative is valid, and she does it in little ways that I have since learned is all about audience manipulation. It’s deeply troubling to see someone who has been through trauma herself, especially within a cult like Nxivm, act in this way. As a survivor of both cult manipulation and sexual abuse, I understand how complex and messy healing can be. And I don’t make these observations lightly. But the more I listen to Sarah, the more I notice red flags that raise doubts about her motivations. The abuse she endured was horrific, without question but she wasn't raped yet she discredits those that did experience it by making it about the abuser road to recovery. By undermining other survivors’ voices, it seems like she’s trying to manipulate the conversation and create a version of events that centers her experience and her friends, while diminishing the validity of others who went through their own trauma. She was an abuser herself, and I get the sense she hasn't worked that out of herself totally.
I personally went to school with Sarah and always admired her. The idea that someone so smart, talented and dynamic could fall into a cult like this .. shows how cunning, manipulative and divisive these kind of organizations are. So impressed at her honesty and integrity in telling her story. ❤
I knew three people who were taking classes through her centre in Vancouver. They all felt empowered by those classes, were excited to be a part of it, and we're taking the things they learned and making stuff happen. By making the point of entry a positive, and slowly funneling toward the crazy, it made it so easy to indoctrinate people. That's how it started for people like Sarah, or Allison Mack, whom I knew as an absolute sweetheart of a human.
@John-tr5hn perhaps. but all of us who were raised in cults, or by disfunctional parents, have that trait. we work hard to be rational now, and to have boundaries, because that's a part of the psyche that got stuck very early on
Sarah I don't know if you will ever read this but you continue to inspire me and you are doing so much good by speaking out. You truly will never know the extent to which your experience will help other people, but bringing to light the underlying red flags to any shady outfit will genuinely be helpful to so many people.
Thanks again Sarah. Watching "The Vow", and seeing you along with the others become aware and taking back your lives gave me the strength to escape a toxic household where I learned later that my life was in danger in what the MBPD describes as "Compelling Circumstantial Evidence" but the VA was GTFO now and I did. You guys saved my life. Thank you.
@@ferretyluv Yes, the Ex overheard something that was said during one of my Telehealth appointments, started yelling, threatening plus her mother jumped in and the practitioner overheard. The Ex had slammed the laptop lid down thinking it would turn off the laptop. Needless to say they heard enough to help me put in motion an escape plan when the local LE wouldn't do anything.
I commend her for coming out and telling her story - it's especially vulnerable when you join later, and are not brought up in it as a kid, because the potential for shame is immense. But she still does it to show anyone can be brain-washed.
I have to deal disagree with that. It's especially vulnerable for children who are born into it and 100% at the mercy of whatever their adult 'care-givers and role models' choose to do to them or impart on them without any external frame of reference, support or option to be anywhere else. That's more vulnerable than feeling shame as a duped adult.
@@bethanp3453 From what I understand, scootergirl was referring to the vulnerability of the act of speaking about her experience, not how susceptible people are to joining cults at different stages in life. In other words, people are far more likely to be sympathetic to those who were brainwashed as children than to adults who "should've known better".
My roommate in college, who was number 1 in his graduating class, right after graduation he joined the Eckankar cult, he's still in it 45 years later...bizarre
Our family friends claimed they're Templars and it all started with claiming that Egyptians couldn't build the pyramids. Other "Templar" group was arrested near me recently. Cops found weapons and plans to overthrow government and turn city over to invaders. During martial law. In Ukraine... Ubisoft were right!
Thank you for your honesty. Continue talking to all who will listen about your experience and shine a light in the darkness. To those who are negative, how people respond says a lot more about them then it does about you
Listening to this brave honest woman discuss and explain how she was walked like an intelligent dog into a training program that served and supported coercive hierarchal ultra controlling mechanisms makes me appreciate how vulnerable many of us are to Wanting To Be BETTER and GET AHEAD. The Urge To Prove Ourselves Worthy to an Outside Authority and the Wish To Identify Only With Those Who SUCCEED - - is a weakness of humans - we lack hubris - humility and the willingness to endeavor in simple goodness toward our fellow humankind. You DON"T NEED ANY Authority to Find Your True Self. You Need Patience - Love - And HUMILITY - HUMILITY - HUMILITY. Thank you for sharing this cautionary tale of Cult Capture in the Guise of Self Improvement.
I am a former member of a cult. I have 2 masters degrees. I speak 3 languages. Joining a cult has nothing to do with intelligence or accomplishments. She is absolutely right when she says if you think you’re too smart to be caught, you’re prime material. Always question a group where critical thinking and/or minor dissent is stopped or dog-piled on for the sake of a higher person or cause. Please don’t abandon your relatives who may fall prey. Those lifelines are crucial when doubts come later.
But I also think it's a personality thing as well. I speak 2 languages fluent and 1 I know the basic (German and English are fluent) and Japanese I know up to A2 - mayyybbbe I will pass B1 (N3) in two weeks. I don't have any master and saw a university from the inside only through the JLPT tests. I work in a good paying job - IT Security. Don't know my IQ - don't want to know it ^^ But I think I would never fall for it, because I'm not someone that has to be told what to think in a group. Yes, I took philosophy class in a private 'school'. But these people worked usual jobs and we met on wednesday and sometimes saturday. Sometimes it was more about religion and some other stuff, but in some parts this is related to Philosophy. Anyway I questioned what we were told every week and read some different articles about the topic. Never said anything about the wrong facts, but I knew what was 'real' and what not. This is and was not a cult - I left it, because I started a further education that But I use this to show, that there are people that think critical about what they get told and look up it for themselfs after.
You may be very educated but perhaps you lack emotional intelligence. Even when I was at my most vulnerable, deep in depression, I doubt I would have fallen for a cult.
Her advice on getting, or subtly trying to get people out of a cult (being a lifeline instead of putting them on the defense) might be really useful for people in the US, 2025-forward.
Well done Sarah. I was glued to The Vow: complex, in-depth, terrifying. And in its own way, a cautionary tale for the followers of our new president. Best wishes for your continued happiness.
You need to get it through your head that those that think differently than you are stupid or being fooled. That is a very ugly view to take. This arrogance and small minded ness is why in my area it was red for the first time ever. And I am in Tx, we were a rare blue sone because of the confluence of people we had over a long period of time. The cult is om the left supoorting things like slaps om the wrist for crimes if you are a minority, and I am a minority, pushing trans ideologies, I am also trans, but you cannt shove children into something that cant be taken back. People think oh you can just stop but tou cannot mess around with your body with no consequences. But I think it is the left that is the cult because there is no sense of honor, just finger wagging and guilt trips. And of anyone disagrees they want to call them losers, idiots, fools, there is no room for questions or arguements because if you dont agree you are the enemy.
I apologize for thinking this is gonna be boring because it's more of a person talking and I expected actual videos from the cult. However, listening how articulate Ms. Sarah is and how genuine she speaks hook me not only to finish the video, but most importantly be educated that things like this exist. Thank you for sharing this!
What is so compelling to me about cults is that it really can happen to anyone. We all confront feelings of not being good enough or feeling like we need to be serving a higher purpose in life. Someone comes along who says they have those answers and that they can transform us into 'good enough', we're willing to love and reward them for being that guide, making it easy for us. But they're not guides, they're ticks pumping you full of numbing chemicals so you don't feel their bite, and the only ease they're after is their own.
No, the idea that is can "happen to anyone" is false. Not everyone is as tribal as others. A lot of people could never join a cult because they simply don't follow others like that. Recruiters for cults specifically avoid certain types of people because the chance of conversion is so low. Listen to people who fall into cults and you'll find a common theme, they're all "looking for something" or they're very into self help. A specific type of person makes up the majority of folks in a cult.
@@CRneu my aunt joined a cult out of nowhere, despite having higher education and all, but she had years of doing stuff like working esoteric shops, once even seducing Orthodox monk, as she was very performative in her church visits. She tried to cure grandma's heart with homeopathy... less than a year after funeral the entire cult was arrested for planning to overthrow Ukrainian government and let invaders in. I think the biggest red flag was when she and mum were in university together, auntie was very receptive of professors offering special extracurricular "trainings" and fell for phrases like "I see great potential in you"... one of those, mum (they were in the same group) wanted to join one for kicks, but teacher outright denied to let her into a PAID seminar, assume because she was outspoken and nonconformist, while her sister ate everything up, and now we have to take care of her cat.
@CRneu you're not really paying attention to the state of affairs in the world, then. American politics...tribal much? But regardless of my opinions, neuroscientists and psychologists have been studying this phenomenon for a while now and the concensus is that yes, everyone is vulnerable to thought reform techniques, there is no cult-proof personality style or set of traits that provide protection. The general idea is that a narcissist/coercive controller can essentially hijack a person's innate social patterns and it changes their inner dialogue to be excessively conformist, causing their identity to be highly dependent upon external validation. The leader's intermittent and unpredictable reinforcement, either positive or punitive, sets up a subtle form of traumatic stress that activates the limbic system and lends an element of unconscious survival concerns to that fragile, regressed identity. Just because none of the existing cults so far have snagged someone does not guarantee their safety from the next one to come along. All it takes is the right combination of pressures that reaonate with any given individual. I've spent the better part of my adult life studying this phenomenon after losing two family members to yet another disgusting charlatan messiah. I've spoken in person with academically credentialed experts as well as cultivation survivors abd it's obvious to both scientists and people who have been personally immersed in the cult milieu that everyone is vulnerable to this sort of social poison. To be exacting, I will say that people with Schizoid Personality Disorder are the least likely traditional cult joiners, but they're profoundly dysfunctional in all other social aspects, too, and it's a fairly rare disorder.
If it can happen to anyone then why hasn't it happened to everyone? This is a justification motto used by certain ex-cult members who struggle to come to terms with their involvement or to cash in on their experience by stretching out cult to include all aspects of controlling human bwhaviour. Actually the beginning of episodes on Edmondson's podcast is really quite smug and cringey. It's something like, 'If you're one of those people who think it couldn't happen to you, there's a good chance it's already happening to you'. Something along those lines. Yeah, okay Edmondsons. Evidence to support that correlation please. It's bothersome because it sounds like they're using exactly the kind of sleazy manipulation tactics they probably learned in their cult. No Edmondsons. No. You might want that to be the case but it isn't. There is a lot more variation to human behaviours than is in your purview it sounds like. Anyone can be conned, anyone can be coerced or mistreated in certain work settings or relationships. A lot of people can fall for political propaganda and social trends. They're not cults. Not anyone can join a cult. Not everyone does join a cult, or they wouldn't be cults. Closed, isolated groups that close themselves off from outside influence remember? There are some strange occurrences happening in society as a result of our evolved and adapted animal group dynamics being thrown into disarray by the unprecedented ability to interact on a global scale. That's not really culty either. That is a new phenomenon that has only just begun to be studied. You're cultifying every possible negative human interaction or relationship and implying that this is typical human behaviour. You're half right. Humans like being part of a group and conform to some extent. You're just missing out the other half that humans past a certain age also really like freedom and independence and will actively rebel or distance themselves from controlling situations. If that second half is missing in some people then they really need to examine themselves (with emphasis on the 'self' part of 'self-help') or helped by a licensed professional working under a qualified and established governing body, because it sounds like there's something going on there. Joining a cult should not be and is not as commonplace as you're suggesting. It requires underlying issues and is a self-selecting construct. People who aren't cult material don't join. It's as simple as that. Mark Vicente is already on cult #3! It takes a certain type!
Im also a cult survivor (bible based high control), i didn't even say the "c word" till I had been out for 13 years. I'm smart, I have 2 degrees, a good family...but I was tricked.
Very brave of you to talk about this, and warning people. I would love to think I would never fall for something like this - but I see people who are smarter, more successful, and even more jaded than me can...once people feel invincible, they often are the most vulnerable
American Christians instantly recognize the reincarnation of Moses, King David. Egomaniacal psychopaths who order the most insane arbitrary decrees. Or sleep with their friends wives and have them murdered to cover it up. "Man after Gods Own Heart"... Ya, thats a shitty god. 😂😂😂
Absolutely. Including the part about not telling people they are in a cult. Sadly they need to discover this for themselves. We need to listen and give them a pathway out.
Thank you for your courage in speaking out. The biggest, most complete sash of growth to you for this courageous process. What leadership for being an honest human. What true belief in your whole self and your human vulnerability to act publicly with compassion.
@@SarahEdmondsonActor When all explanations for everything are being channeled though the cult, there's no need to do your own research and translate a little Latin. That's how it works.
@@lesliespeaker668 To be fair, the "Latin" in "Dominus Obsequious Sororium" is exactly the pseudo-educated gibberish that you would expect from a cult founder. "Obsequious" is an English adjective, and "dominus sororium" means "master of sisters". Assuming Ranière wanted to actually express "master of obsequious female slaves" in Latin, the correct phrase would have had to be "dominus obsequentium servarum" in order for a translation to get you the above in English. That said, you are of course right about the main point, let alone about the fact that linked to everything else Edmondson describes having experienced, even the incoherent part-Latin version ought to have given a pretty clear idea of where this would be going.
THIS. It’s fake Latin, but I’m shocked no one in a group that high-performing knew Latin well enough to figure out what he was vaguely expressing. Or perhaps by the time they saw it, they were too far into it. 😢
I remember the cult "omega vector" in the early 1980s. They tried to wear you down the first 3 days with hunger, sleep deprivation and intense interactions with others in the group. I never returned
@@jones2277 starvation/sleep deprivation makes you more malleable so that if you are pressured to stay just a little bit, you very likely will. That's the point.
@@jones2277 If they're doing it right though, it isn't the only thing they are doing at once. But I understand your point. Obviously not every single "target" stays or these cults would grow a lot more rampant. They just try to target vulnerable people, like most other cons
@@jones2277 Most probably wouldn't. It's called the sunk cost fallacy and it's literally the reason casinos are profitable. The hardest part is getting them to agree to show up.
True, it's a red flag but there are some actual legit self-help books that aren't trying to get you signed unto a seminar, Manuel J. Smith book "When I say no, I feel guilty" is a great example of actual literature that helps a person, cousin learned to get independent from her over-controlling mother after she borrowed that from my mum, and there was a pretty decent book on OCD written by a recovered sufferer I can't put the name on, it helped a guy I know. But I don't think anyone markets these ACTUALLY helpful books as self-help, they don't talk about buzzwords like "personal growth", they're more in popular psychology section.
I live in Albany, New York (born and raised) and learned about this cult after they got busted. I was completely shocked when the name Nancy Salzman was mentioned because she was my mother's therapist in the early 90's! And she helped my mom a lot. I forgot how many years my mom went to her and my mom is no longer alive, so I can't ask. If she was alive I'm sure she would have been shocked too...
Oh wow, that’s wild. The cognitive dissonance that comes from juxtaposing genuine good that results from these people with their horrendous patterns of coercion is so, so difficult. It’s a big part of why it’s so hard to break ties with abusive family members when you need to. They’re often the same people who’ve shown you genuine love, or at least what felt like it at the time, and it’s really hard to walk away from that part.
Yeah, that phrase really jumped out in this particular cultural moment. I think it’s time to think very seriously about how to provide millions of Americans with that lifeline. I’m very leftist, but to all the political conservatives out there: this isn’t the only way to be conservative, I promise you. You are good and complete without this.
I wonder if 10 years from now they’ll be making a documentary like this about MAGA, some of the things I’ve heard about people who have left the MAGA community sounds exactly like this. Edit: I’m not saying Trump is leading it, but that others are building it with him as the idol
Oh he's a grifter who totally playing along with it until it isn't profitable so he distances, see how he started dropping likes of JFK Jr. and the Jan 6 rioters who aren't getting pardons... at this point someone suggested that MAGAs might try to bonk him to get JD Vance as a powerless face of the whole corporate squid that just wants more power, lower taxes and regulations at expense of people.
There's a great documentary by a woman who left a political cult, but it was actually a far left cult. Just about any ideology can be the basis for a cult. Be careful when you start thinking "it could never be me, never my people. Only those people over there are dumb enough to fall for that."
Congratulations! Here’s your trophy! This is the stupidest post. I’ve seen on RUclips all day. And there are a lot of stupid posts on RUclips. You should be proud of yourself.
her words are so powerful, and many therapists say it over and over again: "you are already complete"... stop waiting for a mesiah (religion, organization, program, person, political party, economic system, etc) to save you... you yourself and your community, are the ones you've been waiting for
Learning of Ranieri and nexium coincided with several significant public interrogations of individuals and groups who use coercive control. Thanks to the courageous work of advocates like Sarah, we are learning to defy manipulation and strengthen our collective opposition to abuse. Keep the spotlight on this predatory s**t until they have nowhere to hide!!!
There’s a reason that the first two things you learn about in Buddhism is: 1. Life is suffering and; 2. You suffer because you desire It’s very unsurprising that cults are so active in entertainment - you get all these hyper competitive people that would sell out anyone close to them for a chance to get ahead.
Its sort of off topic but I just have to say I’m very impressed about articulations and verbal expressions. Saw she also is a voice actress and I understand why. Flawless! 👏🏻🙌🏻
Sarah is the best! So warm and open, willing to share difficult moments to help others. So happy she’s doing well and has such a great family. I would strongly suggest that you watch the Vow (both seasons), subscribe to her podcast and read her book!
0:11 Sarah Edmondson did not spend her 30s building up a company because the work that this incredibly brave woman had to do in her 40s and beyond was *far* more valuable
Keep in mind comments like this diminish the very dangerous and criminal threat of pyramid schemes and MLMs specifically. You have insight and control when you're in a corporate job, you have little when caught up in a scheme, among many other obvious reasons. You're likely making a joke, but it's worth saying to avoid others being misinformed.
How could 10-12 hours of therapy in one day be productive, much less daily? There's seriously going to be a degradation in the quality, and any therapist who has that much time to dedicate to a single patient in a day is probably not actually a qualified therapist.
Incredible. She is so brave for sharing her story and truly being a leader and ethical person in society ❤ information about cults and documentaries have helped me avoid multiple situations that were culty. I have a friend who introduced me to multiple different cults and one where we both joined. I always stayed on the periphery and never wanted to be a part of the “in groups” because I just knew it was a cult. I was gaslit by my friend into thinking this was my own limitation and not an instinct. I was like, whatever, watched some cult documentaries and stepped away. It’s so incredibly helpful to have our critical thinking activated by listing to videos and reading things right at our fingertips. Ps. The one “cult” that I was close to being a part of (kundalini by yogi bhajan) did come out as a cult within a year of me stepping away. The other one (Twin Flames Universe) that I was introduced to also came out as a cult with a shocking documentary, so heartbreaking. Thank you for this important public service ❤❤❤
0:29 I used to have that mindset, then realized I was working for a company functioning as an MLM. It’s kind of amazing how innocent it looks until you dig.
I was part of something similar in Hungary. It was like a microcult turned into a messed up, abusive harem. The leader used the same recipe as Keith. I'm still triggered by it, although I escaped 10 years ago. It scarrs you.
She is so great. I would imagine someone would regret and keep thinking of "what if". But because of this, shes now helping more people. Such a strong person.
They help you with something, make you feel good, and then ask for an escalating series of small compromises. Also, I read her book and I admire how she dismantled the Vancouver centre with as much velocity and energy as she spent building it in the first place. Called all the people she brought in and begged them to leave. Went to the press. Went balls to the wall on making sure everyone knew. Amazing.
Anyone can indeed fall for something like this. When you believe in something and that something comes along with a community, forget about it. Am doing a class for professional development and I'll you this, if the instructor ever decided to start a cult, many of us would be in it. Half the class are people who are there because someone they know took the class and praise that man and his ability to teach the information in a very engaging manner to high haven. Like she said, even before they met him, they had already attributed a lot of good things to his character.
As a therapist, I'd love to see a much more in depth look at all of the aspects of a NXIVM. Even though it has been discussed in various ways in the press- there are new ways to look at it's run from the 1990's all the way to 2017. All sorts of angles and timelines that haven't been explored in a linear way that a person interested in this topic or your channel might be very apt to watch. It's a fascinating topic well beyond Edmundson's story.
I really hope that people who speak out about their experiences in cults find healing through it, and I think the information they share gives us more power in ourselves
I would hope her biggest regret would be the people she recruited into the cult, and the untold amount of damage that did to an untold number of lives. Obviously she didn't know that's what she was doing, so she's not at fault or should have guilt, but certainly an enormous amount of empathy for those people should be front of mind.
That’s what I was thinking. Would think that answer would be a no-brainer. But I’ve heard her talk about how much guilt she feels about that, and these types of interviews are usually pretty heavily edited for entertainment and flow purposes
There are dozens of wealth "gurus" who charge $30,000 for an investing course after producing a free seminar, followed by a cheap book sale, etc. They all work on the same principles.
No mention of Allison Mack. The brand is designed to also be her initials, she was all the way at the top. Also fails to mention Clare Bronfman, heiress to Seagram's liquor fortune who footed the bill for a lot of this. You know, how it Actually Worked.
whats interesting to me about nexium is that it's not even religious... like there is no heaven or ultimate nirvana... it's just "be your best self" ....
It was so weird when I heard her say Landmark because I grew up going to Landmark from the age of 14. Whether Landmark was a cult was something we (the participants) sometimes talked about with each other because there was a rumor. There wasn't an MLM reward system, but you were frequently encouraged to bring your friends and family to an introduction. There wasn't anything about reaching out to strangers or how to approach random people so they would be the most receptive. To this day I still don't know whether or not I would really be qualified as a cult, as there isn't any leader worship and they don't try to separate you from your family and loved ones. It's possible that the most culty part is actually how events are run. Most of the people facilitating the forums and seminars are volunteers. Volunteering is often a way for someone to be able to get the benefits of an expensive class that cost hundreds of dollars by being behind the scenes helping to run the event. Even the seminar leaders were unpaid volunteers, it was just considered to be its own development program. Only the Forum leaders and, I'm guessing, administrative and office people were actually paid employees. It had many important lessons that I still use to this day, but I distanced myself from Landmark about 10 years ago because I didn't like the pressure to recruit loved ones under the representation that it would be most beneficial for your relationships, even if it might be true. It's ok to just be real and say that it's a sales pitch.
Sarah has done a lot of important work, but there’s a troubling side to her. While many other survivors of Nxivm have come forward with their stories, Sarah has been dismissive of their testimonies-particularly because she’s chosen to make amends with some of the very people who perpetuated the abuse. I used to be an avid listener of her podcast, but lately, I can’t shake the unsettling feeling that she’s starting to build a little cult of her own. It’s as if she's creating an environment where only her narrative is valid, and she does it in little ways that I have since learned is all about audience manipulation. It’s deeply troubling to see someone who has been through trauma herself, especially within a cult like Nxivm, act in this way. As a survivor of both cult manipulation and sexual abuse, I understand how complex and messy healing can be. And I don’t make these observations lightly. But the more I listen to Sarah, the more I notice red flags that raise doubts about her motivations. The abuse she endured was horrific, without question but she wasn't raped yet she discredits those that did experience it by making it about the abuser road to recovery. By undermining other survivors’ voices, it seems like she’s trying to manipulate the conversation and create a version of events that centers her experience and her friends, while diminishing the validity of others who went through their own trauma. She was an abuser herself, and I get the sense she hasn't worked that out of herself totally.
She’s in her “gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss” phase It worked for Rachel Hollis and other hшite Utah female influencers for decades and she’s got the same kind of training
Wow the very first lines she speaks is about how SHE could have started a company herself instead of following him... later she keeps saying so much narcissist stuff all about her, and her and her... She TOTALLY sounds like co-conspirator who now tries to clean her image.
I can sense it. She’s very very careful with her image. She uses the popular buzzwords of today like red flags to explain her alleged worries, when those buzzwords didn’t even exist when she was in NVIXIM. She rose to be the city head of an organization, yet never felt close to the leader and always felt weird around him? Wouldn’t a woman who felt weird around a leader worry about staying in his organization? She’s very, very slick.
that's actually on purpose. Keith raniere plagiarized a lot from dianetics and other writing from L. Ron Hubbard. I wouldn't be surprised if he studied other cult leaders and tried to emulate them as well.
@@j.boog612 my local cult leader who was just apprehended openly pilfered from Scientology and auntie in his cult didn't even deny it, said he listed Hubbard as one of people he respects (they claimed to be Templars, got arrested after planning a coup).
One of their members had been Nicki Clyne, formerly of Battlestar Galactica fame (the later version). I remember how, after The Vow had been released on HBO, she kept insisting that Keith was a victim of an overreaching government and they had no actual proof, etc. I had followed her on Twitter long before that and I was worried but didn't say anything. Apparently as of last year she saw the light and left the cult. I'm so happy that she's free now. That couldn't have been easy. It's easier to be fooled than to admit you've been fooled.
Excellent video. I always hope someone who’s in a cult but may not realize it will stumble upon a video like this and it gets their critical thinking going!
If you aren't getting paid in the corporate world and working for free... time to turn on that critical thinking she talks about. Most of us are getting paid lol
its like...internalizing capitalism as a mindset is the root of the corporate world - that tells you to stay, and climb, the corporate ladder - it really is cult like
I would never thought I would join the cult until I heard her introduction to the cult. Many are still starting to create networks and NXIVM is terrifyingly convincing. It's about self growth and a lot of people are really into self help stuff.
I don't think I would ever be able to join a cult, I am just to cheap and lazy. If people need me to pay for stuff or like do something we ain't doing it. seems like a lot of pressure and I can't deal with that so can't even imagine why people go to meetings like this in the first place.
Psychologist here. One thing I've noticed about most cults -- their initial teachings, activities, or workshops are based on real psychological practices. Essentially, the cult provides a form of therapy, which works in the short-term. So, their members may see real improvements in their lives (just like Sarah getting more acting roles). This process can hook them, which makes them susceptible to brain washing -- and, then, things start to slowly get worse over time.
In your opinion, what are some red flags people should look out for so they don't become susceptible to a cult?
I've always understood that this is how people join religious cults... the offer of friendship and compassion, then they realise if they don't conform they risk losing these now co-dependant benefits...😢
@@alexanderchaves4875 they promise things like making your life great again, they promise great things in the future, they claim they will protect you, they encourage you to disassociate from friends and loved ones, they demonize anything that isn't their teachings, they tell you that anyone who questions their ideals is the enemy, they tell you that your in constant danger and they alone can protect you, they claim to have achieved things they really didn't.... Just like trump.
That is how many social media cults operate, just no central leader.
Maybe she got the roles herself and only thought it was because of the teachings though. They took the credit for it
I'm impressed she didn't even wait for the FBI, just went straight to the press. Very happy they took her seriously as well.
She did go to the FBI first they ignored it so it is good she wasn't detered from still attempting to tell her story although the the accused sent the Vancouver police to harrass her. It's treated as a crime to report crime apparently. Those gymnasts and victims of Nassar condemned the FBI in Congress too for ignoring them it's another niave sense of false security victims have that police or law enforcement will help them I often wonder how they pretended not to know about Epstein or Weinstein either seemed so obvious they must be willfully ignorant much of the time and the metoo movement exposed 20% of reported sexual assaults get dismissed automatically as "unfounded" and are not investigated in Canada according to investigative journalist Robyn Doolittle in 2017. Lots of victim blaming goes on regarding crimes police are either overworked or apathetic which emboldens perpetrators.
@annalisavajda252 Sorry, I didn't clarify my comment. What I meant by "didn't wait", is she didn't wait (very long) for the FBI to take action. They would've needed to collect evidence and done their own investigation and it would've taken months for anything to begin happening. It seems like within the first week or so, she decided to just go straight to the news.
I'm surprised it was published. That is rare
@@BewareTheLilyOfTheValley If you followed the case, the cult members had to provide most of the evidence. It took many people to get this cult stopped and it required money.
@@annalisavajda252The FBI is smug about everyday people who seek assistance, due to crimes perpetrated against them. I also have experienced this. BTW the description of what Ranieri did, weaponizing the police against his victim sounds like targeting to me. EXPERIENCE
I took a course in university on cults (NRMs) and she was the guest speaker for a lot of our lectures. Really really awesome guest, and actually co-taught a course the next semester with my prof.
What happened in this 30 minute video actually happened over the course of many years. It sounds crazy that some of these steps were taken, however when they happen so slowly and everyone around you normalizes it, you don’t even realize what’s happening until it’s too late. Glad she continues to warn people about the dangers of cults.
It’s the frog in the boiling water - you don’t realize the path you’re being taken down until it could be too late.
The asmr community is partially a criminal organization that works like a cult. Hackin folks against their will for roleplay. Humiliating them and some even blackmail listeners into compliance and into shutting up about it. Not all artists do it ofc. But when they talk about "we all float down here", u can be sure they part of that cult. Brainwashin and manipulation at its finest and at the cost + exploitation of ppl's mental health. Beware.
@@milliemino8424 Except frogs actually jump out of water when it gets too hot. But our country is proof that *most* people can fall for a cult leader.
@@John-tr5hn Yeah, I actually learned that a little while ago. Frogs will absolutely jump out. And with luck and enough support, people can, too.
Yup it's the downside of us being able to higher thought. If we were purely instinctual creatures, we'd run. But we aren't. I really enjoy how she explains the faults and bad decisions she made, but gives context as to why@@milliemino8424
"Are you cutting off parts of yourself to feel like you belong?"
This is the top sign that a person is in a toxic friendship, social circle, or religious group. The worst of the worst always play on self-esteem and validation issues. Getting you to 'deny' yourself is how they can coerce you to do things that harm the authenticity of self and others. Trying to get someone to like you who tells you you arent good enough unless you do everything they want, is a fast track toward a manipulative controlling situation.
This what it was like when I was growing up. There were parts of me that couldn't even begin to develop until I left that whole environment.
Toxic workplace or working under a toxic boss, even.
Yes! love this, great way to put it. I’ve also heard “if your life is getting smaller while theirs is maintaining or growing, you’re in trouble” when referring to abuse/toxic/cult relationships, which I also think is a useful heuristic
you're describing high control religions eg evangelicals
Can I quote you on this comment?
Sarah is an articulate and erudite communicator who clearly understands this subject. And she helped put a cult-leader in prison for 120-years. All power to her. Incredible woman.
Thank you!
@@SarahEdmondsonActor I appreciate you bringing the truth to light. You're helping more than you realise.
She's an idiot
She was also one of the more prolific persons to ensnare others into the cult in Canada and Mexico. I feel sorry for those victims.
@@SudiB777 NXIVM, like other similar cults, turn recruits into recruiters in a very short space of time. I am always baffled when a comment like this pops up singling out an individual. I ask myself is this person commenting coming from a place of understanding cults? Or is this person someone who wishes to punish someone who brought down a cult because sitting in their mum's basement prevents them fulfilling their true godlike potential.
Great to see the word cult in the same sentence as crime. Another great addition to the playlist.
Can't wait for "How Maga Actually Works" | How Crime Works
i read this as "manga" lol
2:13 2:21 2:23 2:33 2:34 2:35 2:35 2:36 2:39 @@BonShula
@@BonShulaPropaganda and emotional and fear control
@@yeskaitlyn8029 yes, political cults are NOT different from religious or commercial ones. Crypto bros are the same thing as MLM, come on, NFTs were just Herbalife for men, and any populist with cult following is not much different from a guru.
When Mark Vicente said in The Vow "No one joins a cult. They join a good thing." I understood just how insidious and prolific cults or culty organizations are in our lives because it's true; no one ever thinks they're joining a cult, something inherently abusive, and no one can convince them that they are sending themselves down the wrong path.
Those of you seeing similarities with the corporate world, think about that. Seriously.
Take some time to *really* learn about cults, not just the notorious ones, and you'll be able to truly protect yourself from having your goodness taken advantage of to perpetuate harm.
Yeah. Its like when people go "I would never join a cult". No, you wouldnt. But you may join what you think is a great group with lots of friendly people who talk about interesting things.
Indoctrination and control is a slow process. If they ramped up the heavy pressure and control immediately youd flee like the proverbial frog dropped in hot water.
Instead, they wait till youre financially and socially involved. Sunk cost fallacy is a big thing too.
That quote by Mark is one of my favorites of all time. I use it in my fraud/scam education presentations all the time.
Depending on your definition, the cult may not even control every aspect of your life, it may just be a scheme to get you to buy things. Pyramid schemes, the companies you work for, even gyms and dieting can have cult-life behavior.
Very courageous of her to tell her story on such a large platform. It’s clear she is uncomfortable reliving these experiences so going through this to shine a light on her specific abusers and highlight the broader techniques in order to educate others is incredibly commendable. Fair play
Thank you! Trying
@@SarahEdmondsonActorkeep up the good work Sarah!
@@SarahEdmondsonActor Sarah has done a lot of important work, but there’s a troubling side to her. While many other survivors of Nxivm have come forward with their stories, Sarah has been dismissive of their testimonies-particularly because she’s chosen to make amends with some of the very people who perpetuated the abuse. I used to be an avid listener of her podcast, but lately, I can’t shake the unsettling feeling that she’s starting to build a little cult of her own. It’s as if she's creating an environment where only her narrative is valid, and she does it in little ways that I have since learned is all about audience manipulation.
It’s deeply troubling to see someone who has been through trauma herself, especially within a cult like Nxivm, act in this way. As a survivor of both cult manipulation and sexual abuse, I understand how complex and messy healing can be. And I don’t make these observations lightly. But the more I listen to Sarah, the more I notice red flags that raise doubts about her motivations. The abuse she endured was horrific, without question but she wasn't raped yet she discredits those that did experience it by making it about the abuser road to recovery. By undermining other survivors’ voices, it seems like she’s trying to manipulate the conversation and create a version of events that centers her experience and her friends, while diminishing the validity of others who went through their own trauma. She was an abuser herself, and I get the sense she hasn't worked that out of herself totally.
Courageous or stupid???
@@SarahEdmondsonActor you're a 🤡
I personally went to school with Sarah and always admired her. The idea that someone so smart, talented and dynamic could fall into a cult like this .. shows how cunning, manipulative and divisive these kind of organizations are. So impressed at her honesty and integrity in telling her story. ❤
I knew three people who were taking classes through her centre in Vancouver. They all felt empowered by those classes, were excited to be a part of it, and we're taking the things they learned and making stuff happen.
By making the point of entry a positive, and slowly funneling toward the crazy, it made it so easy to indoctrinate people. That's how it started for people like Sarah, or Allison Mack, whom I knew as an absolute sweetheart of a human.
You need a role model
@@professionalpookieand you need a stint in a mental hospital
I watched the entire HBO series, and she came across as pretty dumb and gullible.
@John-tr5hn perhaps. but all of us who were raised in cults, or by disfunctional parents, have that trait. we work hard to be rational now, and to have boundaries, because that's a part of the psyche that got stuck very early on
When will the cult of scientology be prosecuted for their crimes????
When the IRS is no longer afraid of them
why???
That's like wondering when Christianity will fall
this question is antisemitic
@@SPACEDOUT19 because they harassed and basically stalked IRS employees until they gave the church a tax exempt status
I'm so fascinated by cults but it's completely devastating the way that peoples lives are affected. Thank you for sharing your story, Sarah.
Sarah I don't know if you will ever read this but you continue to inspire me and you are doing so much good by speaking out. You truly will never know the extent to which your experience will help other people, but bringing to light the underlying red flags to any shady outfit will genuinely be helpful to so many people.
I did see it! thank you so much! so kind of you!
Seriously saying all of this so publicly for all to hear is SO BRAVE.
Very Integrous of her 🧐
Oh God. The "if you think you are immune, you are the most vulnerable" we have all the hits here!
What a brave human to share this, you can see her emotional and physical struggle through it. What a brave beautiful woman sharing this.
Thanks again Sarah. Watching "The Vow", and seeing you along with the others become aware and taking back your lives gave me the strength to escape a toxic household where I learned later that my life was in danger in what the MBPD describes as "Compelling Circumstantial Evidence" but the VA was GTFO now and I did. You guys saved my life. Thank you.
Wait can you expound on this? The acronyms are confusing
VA? Veteran’s Affairs?
@@ferretyluv Yes, the Ex overheard something that was said during one of my Telehealth appointments, started yelling, threatening plus her mother jumped in and the practitioner overheard. The Ex had slammed the laptop lid down thinking it would turn off the laptop. Needless to say they heard enough to help me put in motion an escape plan when the local LE wouldn't do anything.
A common thread I've seen with cults is that many members, after the fact, says "I never thought I would join a cult"
I think part of it is a lot of new cults don't look like cults from 30 years ago. They brand themselves more as self-help groups than religions.
I commend her for coming out and telling her story - it's especially vulnerable when you join later, and are not brought up in it as a kid, because the potential for shame is immense. But she still does it to show anyone can be brain-washed.
And both parents being therapists too? Everyone in this equation is a bit of a fail unfortunately
I have to deal disagree with that. It's especially vulnerable for children who are born into it and 100% at the mercy of whatever their adult 'care-givers and role models' choose to do to them or impart on them without any external frame of reference, support or option to be anywhere else. That's more vulnerable than feeling shame as a duped adult.
@@bethanp3453 From what I understand, scootergirl was referring to the vulnerability of the act of speaking about her experience, not how susceptible people are to joining cults at different stages in life. In other words, people are far more likely to be sympathetic to those who were brainwashed as children than to adults who "should've known better".
My roommate in college, who was number 1 in his graduating class, right after graduation he joined the Eckankar cult, he's still in it 45 years later...bizarre
Wow. I have not heard of that before
Our family friends claimed they're Templars and it all started with claiming that Egyptians couldn't build the pyramids. Other "Templar" group was arrested near me recently. Cops found weapons and plans to overthrow government and turn city over to invaders. During martial law. In Ukraine... Ubisoft were right!
For some, real life is so terrifying that a cult seems to offer an attractive alternative 😢
@@nakuruhike7991 Looking for God in all the wrong places. Cults can't deliver on their promises.
Thank you for your honesty. Continue talking to all who will listen about your experience and shine a light in the darkness. To those who are negative, how people respond says a lot more about them then it does about you
that's my goal!
Listening to this brave honest woman discuss and explain how she was walked like an intelligent dog into a training program that served and supported coercive hierarchal ultra controlling mechanisms makes me appreciate how vulnerable many of us are to Wanting To Be BETTER and GET AHEAD. The Urge To Prove Ourselves Worthy to an Outside Authority and the Wish To Identify Only With Those Who SUCCEED - - is a weakness of humans - we lack hubris - humility and the willingness to endeavor in simple goodness toward our fellow humankind. You DON"T NEED ANY Authority to Find Your True Self. You Need Patience - Love - And HUMILITY - HUMILITY - HUMILITY. Thank you for sharing this cautionary tale of Cult Capture in the Guise of Self Improvement.
I am a former member of a cult. I have 2 masters degrees. I speak 3 languages. Joining a cult has nothing to do with intelligence or accomplishments. She is absolutely right when she says if you think you’re too smart to be caught, you’re prime material.
Always question a group where critical thinking and/or minor dissent is stopped or dog-piled on for the sake of a higher person or cause. Please don’t abandon your relatives who may fall prey. Those lifelines are crucial when doubts come later.
But I also think it's a personality thing as well.
I speak 2 languages fluent and 1 I know the basic (German and English are fluent) and Japanese I know up to A2 - mayyybbbe I will pass B1 (N3) in two weeks.
I don't have any master and saw a university from the inside only through the JLPT tests. I work in a good paying job - IT Security. Don't know my IQ - don't want to know it ^^
But I think I would never fall for it, because I'm not someone that has to be told what to think in a group.
Yes, I took philosophy class in a private 'school'. But these people worked usual jobs and we met on wednesday and sometimes saturday. Sometimes it was more about religion and some other stuff, but in some parts this is related to Philosophy. Anyway I questioned what we were told every week and read some different articles about the topic. Never said anything about the wrong facts, but I knew what was 'real' and what not.
This is and was not a cult - I left it, because I started a further education that
But I use this to show, that there are people that think critical about what they get told and look up it for themselfs after.
Were/are you religious?
Having 2 degrees has nothing to do with intelligence
You may be very educated but perhaps you lack emotional intelligence. Even when I was at my most vulnerable, deep in depression, I doubt I would have fallen for a cult.
Learning about high control groups should be REQUIRED
Yes! Learning about it as youths would be good.
US government would not like that 😅
That's an ironically controlling statement.
@@unknown6390 Makes sense why they're going to destroy Dept of Education
Ironic statement is ironic.
Her advice on getting, or subtly trying to get people out of a cult (being a lifeline instead of putting them on the defense) might be really useful for people in the US, 2025-forward.
Well done Sarah. I was glued to The Vow: complex, in-depth, terrifying. And in its own way, a cautionary tale for the followers of our new president. Best wishes for your continued happiness.
You need to get it through your head that those that think differently than you are stupid or being fooled. That is a very ugly view to take. This arrogance and small minded ness is why in my area it was red for the first time ever. And I am in Tx, we were a rare blue sone because of the confluence of people we had over a long period of time. The cult is om the left supoorting things like slaps om the wrist for crimes if you are a minority, and I am a minority, pushing trans ideologies, I am also trans, but you cannt shove children into something that cant be taken back. People think oh you can just stop but tou cannot mess around with your body with no consequences. But I think it is the left that is the cult because there is no sense of honor, just finger wagging and guilt trips. And of anyone disagrees they want to call them losers, idiots, fools, there is no room for questions or arguements because if you dont agree you are the enemy.
I apologize for thinking this is gonna be boring because it's more of a person talking and I expected actual videos from the cult. However, listening how articulate Ms. Sarah is and how genuine she speaks hook me not only to finish the video, but most importantly be educated that things like this exist. Thank you for sharing this!
What is so compelling to me about cults is that it really can happen to anyone. We all confront feelings of not being good enough or feeling like we need to be serving a higher purpose in life. Someone comes along who says they have those answers and that they can transform us into 'good enough', we're willing to love and reward them for being that guide, making it easy for us. But they're not guides, they're ticks pumping you full of numbing chemicals so you don't feel their bite, and the only ease they're after is their own.
Everyone can be tricked but not everyone can be tricked into joining a cult. This is its own separate thing
No, the idea that is can "happen to anyone" is false. Not everyone is as tribal as others. A lot of people could never join a cult because they simply don't follow others like that. Recruiters for cults specifically avoid certain types of people because the chance of conversion is so low. Listen to people who fall into cults and you'll find a common theme, they're all "looking for something" or they're very into self help. A specific type of person makes up the majority of folks in a cult.
@@CRneu my aunt joined a cult out of nowhere, despite having higher education and all, but she had years of doing stuff like working esoteric shops, once even seducing Orthodox monk, as she was very performative in her church visits. She tried to cure grandma's heart with homeopathy... less than a year after funeral the entire cult was arrested for planning to overthrow Ukrainian government and let invaders in. I think the biggest red flag was when she and mum were in university together, auntie was very receptive of professors offering special extracurricular "trainings" and fell for phrases like "I see great potential in you"... one of those, mum (they were in the same group) wanted to join one for kicks, but teacher outright denied to let her into a PAID seminar, assume because she was outspoken and nonconformist, while her sister ate everything up, and now we have to take care of her cat.
@CRneu you're not really paying attention to the state of affairs in the world, then. American politics...tribal much? But regardless of my opinions, neuroscientists and psychologists have been studying this phenomenon for a while now and the concensus is that yes, everyone is vulnerable to thought reform techniques, there is no cult-proof personality style or set of traits that provide protection. The general idea is that a narcissist/coercive controller can essentially hijack a person's innate social patterns and it changes their inner dialogue to be excessively conformist, causing their identity to be highly dependent upon external validation. The leader's intermittent and unpredictable reinforcement, either positive or punitive, sets up a subtle form of traumatic stress that activates the limbic system and lends an element of unconscious survival concerns to that fragile, regressed identity. Just because none of the existing cults so far have snagged someone does not guarantee their safety from the next one to come along. All it takes is the right combination of pressures that reaonate with any given individual. I've spent the better part of my adult life studying this phenomenon after losing two family members to yet another disgusting charlatan messiah. I've spoken in person with academically credentialed experts as well as cultivation survivors abd it's obvious to both scientists and people who have been personally immersed in the cult milieu that everyone is vulnerable to this sort of social poison. To be exacting, I will say that people with Schizoid Personality Disorder are the least likely traditional cult joiners, but they're profoundly dysfunctional in all other social aspects, too, and it's a fairly rare disorder.
If it can happen to anyone then why hasn't it happened to everyone? This is a justification motto used by certain ex-cult members who struggle to come to terms with their involvement or to cash in on their experience by stretching out cult to include all aspects of controlling human bwhaviour. Actually the beginning of episodes on Edmondson's podcast is really quite smug and cringey. It's something like, 'If you're one of those people who think it couldn't happen to you, there's a good chance it's already happening to you'. Something along those lines. Yeah, okay Edmondsons. Evidence to support that correlation please. It's bothersome because it sounds like they're using exactly the kind of sleazy manipulation tactics they probably learned in their cult. No Edmondsons. No. You might want that to be the case but it isn't. There is a lot more variation to human behaviours than is in your purview it sounds like. Anyone can be conned, anyone can be coerced or mistreated in certain work settings or relationships. A lot of people can fall for political propaganda and social trends. They're not cults. Not anyone can join a cult. Not everyone does join a cult, or they wouldn't be cults. Closed, isolated groups that close themselves off from outside influence remember? There are some strange occurrences happening in society as a result of our evolved and adapted animal group dynamics being thrown into disarray by the unprecedented ability to interact on a global scale. That's not really culty either. That is a new phenomenon that has only just begun to be studied. You're cultifying every possible negative human interaction or relationship and implying that this is typical human behaviour. You're half right. Humans like being part of a group and conform to some extent. You're just missing out the other half that humans past a certain age also really like freedom and independence and will actively rebel or distance themselves from controlling situations. If that second half is missing in some people then they really need to examine themselves (with emphasis on the 'self' part of 'self-help') or helped by a licensed professional working under a qualified and established governing body, because it sounds like there's something going on there. Joining a cult should not be and is not as commonplace as you're suggesting. It requires underlying issues and is a self-selecting construct. People who aren't cult material don't join. It's as simple as that. Mark Vicente is already on cult #3! It takes a certain type!
Im also a cult survivor (bible based high control), i didn't even say the "c word" till I had been out for 13 years. I'm smart, I have 2 degrees, a good family...but I was tricked.
Very brave of you to talk about this, and warning people. I would love to think I would never fall for something like this - but I see people who are smarter, more successful, and even more jaded than me can...once people feel invincible, they often are the most vulnerable
Just like how the people fell for Trump. You just described that POS in this video.
Yep. Scary
American Christians instantly recognize the reincarnation of Moses, King David.
Egomaniacal psychopaths who order the most insane arbitrary decrees. Or sleep with their friends wives and have them murdered to cover it up. "Man after Gods Own Heart"... Ya, thats a shitty god. 😂😂😂
Absolutely. Including the part about not telling people they are in a cult. Sadly they need to discover this for themselves. We need to listen and give them a pathway out.
More like people who reject clearly observable reality and say a man is a "woman".
cry harder
Thank you for your courage in speaking out. The biggest, most complete sash of growth to you for this courageous process. What leadership for being an honest human. What true belief in your whole self and your human vulnerability to act publicly with compassion.
Good job by RUclips to insert ads for the exact same con in this video. Lovely work, az usual.
So true!!!😂
What ads did you get? I always just get BP ads.
Elon musk
@@ferretyluv some performance coach nonsense.
Did you pay for this documentary? ????
It's really cruel how ballsy the cult leaders are when they deliberately state the lie right under their noses like that, with the Latin.
yeah he did that with all of his company names!
@@SarahEdmondsonActor When all explanations for everything are being channeled though the cult, there's no need to do your own research and translate a little Latin. That's how it works.
@@lesliespeaker668 To be fair, the "Latin" in "Dominus Obsequious Sororium" is exactly the pseudo-educated gibberish that you would expect from a cult founder. "Obsequious" is an English adjective, and "dominus sororium" means "master of sisters". Assuming Ranière wanted to actually express "master of obsequious female slaves" in Latin, the correct phrase would have had to be "dominus obsequentium servarum" in order for a translation to get you the above in English. That said, you are of course right about the main point, let alone about the fact that linked to everything else Edmondson describes having experienced, even the incoherent part-Latin version ought to have given a pretty clear idea of where this would be going.
@@chevalierdupapillon lol thank you! thought i had to go back to my grammar books.
THIS. It’s fake Latin, but I’m shocked no one in a group that high-performing knew Latin well enough to figure out what he was vaguely expressing. Or perhaps by the time they saw it, they were too far into it. 😢
I remember the cult "omega vector" in the early 1980s.
They tried to wear you down the first 3 days with hunger, sleep deprivation and intense interactions with others in the group.
I never returned
And that’s the question. What kind of person stays?
@@jones2277 starvation/sleep deprivation makes you more malleable so that if you are pressured to stay just a little bit, you very likely will. That's the point.
@@Heriarkamost people would just walk out if they were deprived of food and sleep
@@jones2277 If they're doing it right though, it isn't the only thing they are doing at once.
But I understand your point. Obviously not every single "target" stays or these cults would grow a lot more rampant. They just try to target vulnerable people, like most other cons
@@jones2277 Most probably wouldn't. It's called the sunk cost fallacy and it's literally the reason casinos are profitable. The hardest part is getting them to agree to show up.
There was a sponsored ad for LuLuLemon on the top right banner of this video when I watched it today.
I think Lululemon is ok but lularoe was the leggings cult? BRB going to Google it.
I have a lot of respect for this woman. Really interesting story.
thanks so much
@@SarahEdmondsonActoromg it's actually you?
You're amazing ❤
Anytype of seminars, retreats or even youtube channels that call themselves self help for growth personally and financially is a red flag to me.
True, it's a red flag but there are some actual legit self-help books that aren't trying to get you signed unto a seminar, Manuel J. Smith book "When I say no, I feel guilty" is a great example of actual literature that helps a person, cousin learned to get independent from her over-controlling mother after she borrowed that from my mum, and there was a pretty decent book on OCD written by a recovered sufferer I can't put the name on, it helped a guy I know. But I don't think anyone markets these ACTUALLY helpful books as self-help, they don't talk about buzzwords like "personal growth", they're more in popular psychology section.
I 100% agree.
I live in Albany, New York (born and raised) and learned about this cult after they got busted. I was completely shocked when the name Nancy Salzman was mentioned because she was my mother's therapist in the early 90's! And she helped my mom a lot. I forgot how many years my mom went to her and my mom is no longer alive, so I can't ask. If she was alive I'm sure she would have been shocked too...
Oh wow, that’s wild. The cognitive dissonance that comes from juxtaposing genuine good that results from these people with their horrendous patterns of coercion is so, so difficult. It’s a big part of why it’s so hard to break ties with abusive family members when you need to. They’re often the same people who’ve shown you genuine love, or at least what felt like it at the time, and it’s really hard to walk away from that part.
Sarah, thanks for your bravery and honesty about this subject.
"Word Salad".
Hmm, where have we heard that before?
Trump.
@@qow2427 yep.
Yeah, that phrase really jumped out in this particular cultural moment. I think it’s time to think very seriously about how to provide millions of Americans with that lifeline. I’m very leftist, but to all the political conservatives out there: this isn’t the only way to be conservative, I promise you. You are good and complete without this.
Otherwords has a video about speech patterns of cult leaders and they don't mention Trump but he uses every tactic they talked about.
Cult expert and sociologist Steven Hassan PHD talks about Trump, MAGA, and cultiness. He wrote a book about it
A lot of people don’t think they’ll ever join a cult…meanwhile they go to church very LOUDLY every Sunday. You know who I’m talking about.
I wonder if 10 years from now they’ll be making a documentary like this about MAGA, some of the things I’ve heard about people who have left the MAGA community sounds exactly like this.
Edit: I’m not saying Trump is leading it, but that others are building it with him as the idol
Oh he's a grifter who totally playing along with it until it isn't profitable so he distances, see how he started dropping likes of JFK Jr. and the Jan 6 rioters who aren't getting pardons... at this point someone suggested that MAGAs might try to bonk him to get JD Vance as a powerless face of the whole corporate squid that just wants more power, lower taxes and regulations at expense of people.
I’m sure we will get that doco
There's a great documentary by a woman who left a political cult, but it was actually a far left cult. Just about any ideology can be the basis for a cult. Be careful when you start thinking "it could never be me, never my people. Only those people over there are dumb enough to fall for that."
There already are documentaries about maga.
Congratulations! Here’s your trophy! This is the stupidest post. I’ve seen on RUclips all day. And there are a lot of stupid posts on RUclips. You should be proud of yourself.
her words are so powerful, and many therapists say it over and over again: "you are already complete"... stop waiting for a mesiah (religion, organization, program, person, political party, economic system, etc) to save you... you yourself and your community, are the ones you've been waiting for
Learning of Ranieri and nexium coincided with several significant public interrogations of individuals and groups who use coercive control. Thanks to the courageous work of advocates like Sarah, we are learning to defy manipulation and strengthen our collective opposition to abuse. Keep the spotlight on this predatory s**t until they have nowhere to hide!!!
Very impressive woman. Telling this story so eloquently and openly is really brave .
There’s a reason that the first two things you learn about in Buddhism is:
1. Life is suffering and;
2. You suffer because you desire
It’s very unsurprising that cults are so active in entertainment - you get all these hyper competitive people that would sell out anyone close to them for a chance to get ahead.
Buddhism is a death cult that leads to mass-starvation events, generational poverty, and inability to defend oneself or nation from militant attacks.
American Greed (show) has an episode about this group. Definitely worth the watch. Great interview here!
Its sort of off topic but I just have to say I’m very impressed about articulations and verbal expressions. Saw she also is a voice actress and I understand why. Flawless! 👏🏻🙌🏻
Funny. I found her voice and affect very triggering.
Sarah is the best! So warm and open, willing to share difficult moments to help others.
So happy she’s doing well and has such a great family.
I would strongly suggest that you watch the Vow (both seasons), subscribe to her podcast and read her book!
0:11 Sarah Edmondson did not spend her 30s building up a company because the work that this incredibly brave woman had to do in her 40s and beyond was *far* more valuable
That pyramid looks uncomfortably similar to a corporate org chart
Keep in mind comments like this diminish the very dangerous and criminal threat of pyramid schemes and MLMs specifically. You have insight and control when you're in a corporate job, you have little when caught up in a scheme, among many other obvious reasons. You're likely making a joke, but it's worth saying to avoid others being misinformed.
How could 10-12 hours of therapy in one day be productive, much less daily? There's seriously going to be a degradation in the quality, and any therapist who has that much time to dedicate to a single patient in a day is probably not actually a qualified therapist.
FBI does nothing, Vancouver police goes after an innocent victim. Sad people have to go to the media to get anything done. So glad she got out
Just noticed that the transition noise changed, thank you! This one is nicer to hear :)
Ex-JW here--Sarah and Nippy's podcast is sooooo helpful 💚 (and really humorous, actually)
Thank you for sharing your story.
And the director of What the Bleep do We Know recommended a cult, because of course he did.
Incredible. She is so brave for sharing her story and truly being a leader and ethical person in society ❤ information about cults and documentaries have helped me avoid multiple situations that were culty. I have a friend who introduced me to multiple different cults and one where we both joined. I always stayed on the periphery and never wanted to be a part of the “in groups” because I just knew it was a cult. I was gaslit by my friend into thinking this was my own limitation and not an instinct. I was like, whatever, watched some cult documentaries and stepped away. It’s so incredibly helpful to have our critical thinking activated by listing to videos and reading things right at our fingertips.
Ps. The one “cult” that I was close to being a part of (kundalini by yogi bhajan) did come out as a cult within a year of me stepping away. The other one (Twin Flames Universe) that I was introduced to also came out as a cult with a shocking documentary, so heartbreaking. Thank you for this important public service ❤❤❤
0:29 I used to have that mindset, then realized I was working for a company functioning as an MLM. It’s kind of amazing how innocent it looks until you dig.
He was also a pedophile, ruining children’s lives as well!
Cults are totally understandable. People are isolated and desperate in the modern age.
No, anyone can be susceptible. This cult was full of very happy, successful people.
@@1ACL Was it??
@@1ACLclearly they weren’t happy. Happy people aren’t this easily manipulated through their “untapped potential” or their unresolved trauma.
I was raised in a cult. I was baptized as a child but got out before committing to it fully as an adult. Thank you for sharing your story.
I was part of something similar in Hungary. It was like a microcult turned into a messed up, abusive harem. The leader used the same recipe as Keith. I'm still triggered by it, although I escaped 10 years ago. It scarrs you.
Congratulations on getting out. You must be very brave. Respect.
She is so great. I would imagine someone would regret and keep thinking of "what if". But because of this, shes now helping more people. Such a strong person.
One other comment. Any group that uses the word “unlock” to describe their benefits is highly likely to be a cult.
They help you with something, make you feel good, and then ask for an escalating series of small compromises.
Also, I read her book and I admire how she dismantled the Vancouver centre with as much velocity and energy as she spent building it in the first place. Called all the people she brought in and begged them to leave. Went to the press. Went balls to the wall on making sure everyone knew. Amazing.
Sarah, I hope Keith realized that the early work put in for genuine self help, was eventually used against him. Fitting.
Anyone can indeed fall for something like this. When you believe in something and that something comes along with a community, forget about it. Am doing a class for professional development and I'll you this, if the instructor ever decided to start a cult, many of us would be in it. Half the class are people who are there because someone they know took the class and praise that man and his ability to teach the information in a very engaging manner to high haven. Like she said, even before they met him, they had already attributed a lot of good things to his character.
As a therapist, I'd love to see a much more in depth look at all of the aspects of a NXIVM. Even though it has been discussed in various ways in the press- there are new ways to look at it's run from the 1990's all the way to 2017. All sorts of angles and timelines that haven't been explored in a linear way that a person interested in this topic or your channel might be very apt to watch. It's a fascinating topic well beyond Edmundson's story.
I really hope that people who speak out about their experiences in cults find healing through it, and I think the information they share gives us more power in ourselves
“What the Bleep Do We Know?” is one of the dumbest movies that’s ever been produced
Oh I want debunking of those films, Zeitgeist got a few, never heard of that one.
@@KasumiRINAIt’s basically just quantum woo.
Exactly, it’s just a film promoting another pseudo-scientific cult.
I would hope her biggest regret would be the people she recruited into the cult, and the untold amount of damage that did to an untold number of lives. Obviously she didn't know that's what she was doing, so she's not at fault or should have guilt, but certainly an enormous amount of empathy for those people should be front of mind.
That’s what I was thinking. Would think that answer would be a no-brainer. But I’ve heard her talk about how much guilt she feels about that, and these types of interviews are usually pretty heavily edited for entertainment and flow purposes
When you are told in an organization like that to pay a lot of money for "training", you can be positive it's a scam.
There are dozens of wealth "gurus" who charge $30,000 for an investing course after producing a free seminar, followed by a cheap book sale, etc.
They all work on the same principles.
No mention of Allison Mack. The brand is designed to also be her initials, she was all the way at the top. Also fails to mention Clare Bronfman, heiress to Seagram's liquor fortune who footed the bill for a lot of this. You know, how it Actually Worked.
Half of America has fallen into a cultish world, TWICE. I guess make whatever, whatever... Again. Again.
We need more How Crime works I find all of them interesting
whats interesting to me about nexium is that it's not even religious... like there is no heaven or ultimate nirvana... it's just "be your best self" ....
Cults offer solutions based on the culture they're in. It's an American cult so it's all about screwing people over for superficial gain.
Sarah you are an inspiration! Thank you so much for your bravery coming forward, & for helping get that psychopath behind bars where he belongs.
Why is she not talking about Allison Mack, she also played huge role in this.
I thought that was weird too. She didn’t mention that at another angle the brand also has an “A” and “M”
@Larjesmac yes, exactly
I love Sarah. Every time I see her I’m just so impressed. What an incredible, intelligent, resilient woman. She’s incredible.
Do MAGA next.
😭😭😭
It was so weird when I heard her say Landmark because I grew up going to Landmark from the age of 14. Whether Landmark was a cult was something we (the participants) sometimes talked about with each other because there was a rumor. There wasn't an MLM reward system, but you were frequently encouraged to bring your friends and family to an introduction. There wasn't anything about reaching out to strangers or how to approach random people so they would be the most receptive. To this day I still don't know whether or not I would really be qualified as a cult, as there isn't any leader worship and they don't try to separate you from your family and loved ones.
It's possible that the most culty part is actually how events are run. Most of the people facilitating the forums and seminars are volunteers. Volunteering is often a way for someone to be able to get the benefits of an expensive class that cost hundreds of dollars by being behind the scenes helping to run the event. Even the seminar leaders were unpaid volunteers, it was just considered to be its own development program. Only the Forum leaders and, I'm guessing, administrative and office people were actually paid employees.
It had many important lessons that I still use to this day, but I distanced myself from Landmark about 10 years ago because I didn't like the pressure to recruit loved ones under the representation that it would be most beneficial for your relationships, even if it might be true. It's ok to just be real and say that it's a sales pitch.
I love this series! Please do more.
Sarah has done a lot of important work, but there’s a troubling side to her. While many other survivors of Nxivm have come forward with their stories, Sarah has been dismissive of their testimonies-particularly because she’s chosen to make amends with some of the very people who perpetuated the abuse. I used to be an avid listener of her podcast, but lately, I can’t shake the unsettling feeling that she’s starting to build a little cult of her own. It’s as if she's creating an environment where only her narrative is valid, and she does it in little ways that I have since learned is all about audience manipulation.
It’s deeply troubling to see someone who has been through trauma herself, especially within a cult like Nxivm, act in this way. As a survivor of both cult manipulation and sexual abuse, I understand how complex and messy healing can be. And I don’t make these observations lightly. But the more I listen to Sarah, the more I notice red flags that raise doubts about her motivations. The abuse she endured was horrific, without question but she wasn't raped yet she discredits those that did experience it by making it about the abuser road to recovery. By undermining other survivors’ voices, it seems like she’s trying to manipulate the conversation and create a version of events that centers her experience and her friends, while diminishing the validity of others who went through their own trauma. She was an abuser herself, and I get the sense she hasn't worked that out of herself totally.
She’s in her “gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss” phase
It worked for Rachel Hollis and other hшite Utah female influencers for decades and she’s got the same kind of training
Wow the very first lines she speaks is about how SHE could have started a company herself instead of following him... later she keeps saying so much narcissist stuff all about her, and her and her... She TOTALLY sounds like co-conspirator who now tries to clean her image.
You're making some very profound accusations. Now back them up with credible sources.
I can sense it. She’s very very careful with her image. She uses the popular buzzwords of today like red flags to explain her alleged worries, when those buzzwords didn’t even exist when she was in NVIXIM. She rose to be the city head of an organization, yet never felt close to the leader and always felt weird around him? Wouldn’t a woman who felt weird around a leader worry about staying in his organization?
She’s very, very slick.
So you’re going to try and cancel her because she isn’t the perfect victim?
Thank you Sarah, Insider and the whole team. I hope for me, you and all peoples the best in this life and the Hereafter.
She is an absolute beacon of strength and virtue and she has helped countless people. I have so much respect for her
The way she uses the word tech is basically the same qs Scientology 😅
yeah keith raniere stole from a lot of places, including scientology🤑
that's actually on purpose. Keith raniere plagiarized a lot from dianetics and other writing from L. Ron Hubbard. I wouldn't be surprised if he studied other cult leaders and tried to emulate them as well.
@@j.boog612 for sure he did!
So much of this is similar to Scientology
@@j.boog612 my local cult leader who was just apprehended openly pilfered from Scientology and auntie in his cult didn't even deny it, said he listed Hubbard as one of people he respects (they claimed to be Templars, got arrested after planning a coup).
One of their members had been Nicki Clyne, formerly of Battlestar Galactica fame (the later version). I remember how, after The Vow had been released on HBO, she kept insisting that Keith was a victim of an overreaching government and they had no actual proof, etc. I had followed her on Twitter long before that and I was worried but didn't say anything. Apparently as of last year she saw the light and left the cult. I'm so happy that she's free now. That couldn't have been easy.
It's easier to be fooled than to admit you've been fooled.
There’s a reflux medication in Australia called Nexium 😅
Yeah thats an acid reflux medication in America too. That’s why he called it NXIVM because Nexium is trademarked.
Excellent video. I always hope someone who’s in a cult but may not realize it will stumble upon a video like this and it gets their critical thinking going!
I feel like according to this the whole corporate world is a cult…
Not just that, but the entire capitalist system is a cult.
I mean... 🤷♀️ kinda
And this is how con-artists got YOU
If you aren't getting paid in the corporate world and working for free... time to turn on that critical thinking she talks about. Most of us are getting paid lol
its like...internalizing capitalism as a mindset is the root of the corporate world - that tells you to stay, and climb, the corporate ladder - it really is cult like
Thank you for your honesty and for sharing your experience.
I would never thought I would join the cult until I heard her introduction to the cult. Many are still starting to create networks and NXIVM is terrifyingly convincing. It's about self growth and a lot of people are really into self help stuff.
Self help is always a huge red flag.
Bold interview. Hope the internal scars heal even if not right away. Respect.
I remeber watching a podcast series from CBC a few years back about this cult... always curious about stories from the inside
"Escaping NXIVM", an excellent podcast series. I've listened to it a couple of times.
Him naming the cult Nexium, the harem DOS, and branding them with his initials gave me CHILLS.
What an absolutely incredible woman. Such courage.
seems kinda dumb to me
@@thejamnasium6447 so do you, John Mark Odom. So do you.
You are amazing! Loved all the docs you've put out!! And you're also looking stunning!
I don't think I would ever be able to join a cult, I am just to cheap and lazy. If people need me to pay for stuff or like do something we ain't doing it. seems like a lot of pressure and I can't deal with that so can't even imagine why people go to meetings like this in the first place.
This was extremely helpful now and definitely in the future 😢 I am sorry for your pain, take good care of yourself and your boys ☮️💌