This isn't the first time I have seen Alamiyan HIDE his serves!!! He does it CONSTANTLY!! The league knows this!!! They need to warn him ahead of time and continously FAULT him until he stops cheating!!! Such bs!!! It's ruining the sport...and worst of all, he has TO KNOW HE'S CHEATING!!! NO WAY HE DOESN'T KNOW!!!
He will do it until he gets called on it. He's winning many points just on the actual serve. The officials either need to be replaced with someone who knows the rules or, they need to be forced to indicate what is wrong, or right with the serve.
Omg I would just cancel the rule .... it's a usless rule, let bring the old "Waldner" times back.... If everybody could hide the service then it will be at least more fair than it is now
@kd6613 slight throwback but well within limits of 99% of serves i have seen and even done myself. Nothing i would remotely consider illegal or attempting to cheat. There are PLENTY of examples of illegals serves in the WTT and ITTF. This serve is sooo within legal bounds compared to the average serve.
It's not only throwing the ball up 6 inches and making it visible throughout the process and stroke. Zaharia was throwing the ball back. This is also illegal. This may explain the continual point deductions. The problem is that some competitions are stricter on these rules than others and this inconsistency gets players used to getting away with serves that are not legal. This is something that came up a lot in the Olympics too.
The problem is that, they come doing this service since U13 journey and they develop a memory of it. They should start calling out serves as fault right from the lowest level of tournaments like districts and state ranking tournaments so that these players start serving legally and develop that good habit right from the start.
@johnw.2869 It's not that wrong , the problem the referee might have seen is that she initially threw it backwards towards the body and not vertically upwards , but in my opinion it was high enough, so it shouldn't have been objected unless the opponent had a problem with it
They need to up the throw elevation to 30cm and ditch the hidden serve rule... It does nothing at highh level play, but it hinders lower players so much. Also, serve from behind the damn table, not above it.
I do see that the serve by Zaharia is thrown slightly towards her. However, many players who stand sidesways to the table when they serve throw the ball much more towards themselves (e.g. Alexis Lebrun), so this may just feel different to the referees because she stands more facing towards the table. Anyway, I think players should be faulted if the way they serve gives them an unfair advantage, but as I see it Kaufmann was handling it just fine, so deducing points on this feels unwarranted. Now if you throw the ball in a giant arc towards you to get a lot of spin, or if you hide the serve and score points because the opponent can't judge the spin (like in the first part of the video), that is a different issue and should be consequently faulted, but especially seeing if the serve is hidden would require video or different viewing geometry for a secondary referee.
They should change rules to be clear, ball and racket must be visible at all times - and there should be ref or cam on both ends of the table... Umpire cant see if the ball is hidden from that position.... Its wierd.
this whole problem is simply resolved. To Change a rule: the player must be in front of the table to serve (The feet must be perpendicular to the final line of the table). That's it.
@MA_Short clearly you haven't seen a lot of table tennis then...i have seen far far worse infractions that were not called...and I'm not even biased. I have never even seen this girl play before so I have no bias one way or the other, statistics from previous hundreds of events that i have watched and witnessed personally. Her serve was well within limits of 99% of serves that they don't fault. If you fault her serve, then just about every serve in the sport today, is illegal and should be called as such, that's all. Apply the rules evenly is all i am pointing out, don't leave it in the discretion of one umpires hands.
No long comment, just @ 1.28" & 9.18" serve are not vertical (send -> back. Ok not the worst you can see). All others serve are clean even the one from german (called fault) I don t follow the masses, just check things by myself
I agree , it's all about interpretation . Just let the game flow . What annoys me about the more than serves is the constant time wasting and the breaks for towelling etc , spoils the game more than serves 😡😡😡
Bien sur ..... les new rules disent lancer vertical ... au cours d'Arbitrage ..ont nous dit " tolerance 30 degré".. mais ce n'est pas ecrit dans les regles !! ceux qui critiquent l'arbitrage devraient s'assoier une journée en Competion .. ils comprendront vite que ce n'est pas si aisé que ca
@@Didier-944 . Bonjour, je ne parle pas de l'angle, mais bien du fait que la tête de la joueuse se trouve entre les yeux de l'adversaire et la balle au moment de l'impact. Et je ne critique pas l'arbitrage, c'était juste une question. D'ailleurs je commence les cours d'arbitre le mois prochain.
Most of the problem is with umpires NOT calling bad serves. If there are umpires too sensitive or mis-judging serves then we need to take out the human element. The only solution is with technology. There is no argument against a machine that is not subjective or biased.
"The ball must come " STRAIGHT UP" and not at any angle, none, are it is a fault. All serves in this videos were "FAULTS" and should have been called against both players. "PERIOD!"
Define "straight" then. It's not humanly possible throw exactly 90 degrees of the table consistently. So is 90,1 degrees ok? 91? 86? and so on. And then we are back to the subjective
@@Basas.Michael Again, what's the tolerances and how do you measure it with out subjectivity then? Is 34,5° ok but 35,5° is a fault? How do you tell differences and make the right call when a ball is close to whatever angle you decide is ok?
Yes that's debateable. Normrally the tolerance is up to 45° from what I've learnt. However I know from Craig Bryants Video that you'd might get called upon by exeeding 35° so that's up to the umpire. It would not have Made any
difference in that particular Match but it was nerving nonetheless and way too strict. For better explanation watch Craig Bryants Video on the topic that explains this better than I can write here
This isn't the first time I have seen Alamiyan HIDE his serves!!! He does it CONSTANTLY!! The league knows this!!! They need to warn him ahead of time and continously FAULT him until he stops cheating!!! Such bs!!! It's ruining the sport...and worst of all, he has TO KNOW HE'S CHEATING!!! NO WAY HE DOESN'T KNOW!!!
He will do it until he gets called on it. He's winning many points just on the actual serve. The officials either need to be replaced with someone who knows the rules or, they need to be forced to indicate what is wrong, or right with the serve.
That first guy was one of the most egregious examples of blocking view during a service I've ever seen. I don't know what is wrong with that umpire.
Zaharia serves very much like Timo Boll and i don't see him getting faults.
ITTF should investigate wrong calls of it's umpire, and give them sanctions if needed.
Omg I would just cancel the rule .... it's a usless rule, let bring the old "Waldner" times back.... If everybody could hide the service then it will be at least more fair than it is now
agree on the fairness but it would be really bad for viewership LOL, there would be less rally and all about sketchy serves 🤣
If that happened you would get one shot rallies. No one would be able to return a serve.🙄
@@rockys7726how did we play when games were on 21 points? No one was returning serves? Come on…
@@FastToysClub And there were plenty of games where winners were decided by hidden trick serves. Come on.
He was a crappy umpire..totally nothing wrong to fault her serve. That guy should be ashamed!!!!
good empire, unlike most
Her serve is much more legal than most, but it does have a bit of throwback action. It's unfortunate though.
@kd6613 slight throwback but well within limits of 99% of serves i have seen and even done myself. Nothing i would remotely consider illegal or attempting to cheat. There are PLENTY of examples of illegals serves in the WTT and ITTF. This serve is sooo within legal bounds compared to the average serve.
on some of her serves in the match she threw the ball towards the bat not straight up..😞
It's not only throwing the ball up 6 inches and making it visible throughout the process and stroke. Zaharia was throwing the ball back. This is also illegal. This may explain the continual point deductions. The problem is that some competitions are stricter on these rules than others and this inconsistency gets players used to getting away with serves that are not legal. This is something that came up a lot in the Olympics too.
The problem is that, they come doing this service since U13 journey and they develop a memory of it.
They should start calling out serves as fault right from the lowest level of tournaments like districts and state ranking tournaments so that these players start serving legally and develop that good habit right from the start.
Perhaps you can explain what is wrong with the serve?
@johnw.2869 It's not that wrong , the problem the referee might have seen is that she initially threw it backwards towards the body and not vertically upwards , but in my opinion it was high enough, so it shouldn't have been objected unless the opponent had a problem with it
They need to up the throw elevation to 30cm and ditch the hidden serve rule... It does nothing at highh level play, but it hinders lower players so much. Also, serve from behind the damn table, not above it.
I do see that the serve by Zaharia is thrown slightly towards her. However, many players who stand sidesways to the table when they serve throw the ball much more towards themselves (e.g. Alexis Lebrun), so this may just feel different to the referees because she stands more facing towards the table. Anyway, I think players should be faulted if the way they serve gives them an unfair advantage, but as I see it Kaufmann was handling it just fine, so deducing points on this feels unwarranted. Now if you throw the ball in a giant arc towards you to get a lot of spin, or if you hide the serve and score points because the opponent can't judge the spin (like in the first part of the video), that is a different issue and should be consequently faulted, but especially seeing if the serve is hidden would require video or different viewing geometry for a secondary referee.
They should change rules to be clear, ball and racket must be visible at all times - and there should be ref or cam on both ends of the table... Umpire cant see if the ball is hidden from that position.... Its wierd.
this whole problem is simply resolved. To Change a rule: the player must be in front of the table to serve (The feet must be perpendicular to the final line of the table). That's it.
VAR is probably the solution.
At 7:26 beautiful receive!
where youtube subtitles???
One of the biggest cheater in TT (Alamyan)
For the romanian girl, serve not verticale enough (umpire is right) 1.28 & 9.18"
@MA_Short clearly you haven't seen a lot of table tennis then...i have seen far far worse infractions that were not called...and I'm not even biased. I have never even seen this girl play before so I have no bias one way or the other, statistics from previous hundreds of events that i have watched and witnessed personally. Her serve was well within limits of 99% of serves that they don't fault. If you fault her serve, then just about every serve in the sport today, is illegal and should be called as such, that's all. Apply the rules evenly is all i am pointing out, don't leave it in the discretion of one umpires hands.
No long comment, just @ 1.28" & 9.18" serve are not vertical (send -> back. Ok not the worst you can see). All others serve are clean even the one from german (called fault)
I don t follow the masses, just check things by myself
When making/changing rules ITTF should hire some intelligent people .
serve rules in TT are absurd. They can't get it right. Not really a sport anymore.
I agree , it's all about interpretation . Just let the game flow .
What annoys me about the more than serves is the constant time wasting and the breaks for towelling etc , spoils the game more than serves 😡😡😡
Le problème du service de Zaharia n'est-il pas qu'elle cache la balle avec sa tête ? On le vois bien à 3:41
Bien sur ..... les new rules disent lancer vertical ... au cours d'Arbitrage ..ont nous dit " tolerance 30 degré".. mais ce n'est pas ecrit dans les regles !! ceux qui critiquent l'arbitrage devraient s'assoier une journée en Competion .. ils comprendront vite que ce n'est pas si aisé que ca
@@Didier-944 . Bonjour, je ne parle pas de l'angle, mais bien du fait que la tête de la joueuse se trouve entre les yeux de l'adversaire et la balle au moment de l'impact. Et je ne critique pas l'arbitrage, c'était juste une question. D'ailleurs je commence les cours d'arbitre le mois prochain.
Zaharia sait que certains arbitres pénalisent son service, elle aurait du le modifier depuis longtemps
Most of the problem is with umpires NOT calling bad serves. If there are umpires too sensitive or mis-judging serves then we need to take out the human element. The only solution is with technology. There is no argument against a machine that is not subjective or biased.
They should just remove that stupid rule so there won’t be any more bad ruling…
"The ball must come " STRAIGHT UP" and not at any angle, none, are it is a fault. All serves in this videos were "FAULTS" and should have been called against both players. "PERIOD!"
Define "straight" then. It's not humanly possible throw exactly 90 degrees of the table consistently. So is 90,1 degrees ok? 91? 86? and so on. And then we are back to the subjective
You can get faulted when over 35° angle and should loose the point when over 45° and or if you'd hide the ball. So rules are clear and easy to follow.
@@Basas.Michael Again, what's the tolerances and how do you measure it with out subjectivity then? Is 34,5° ok but 35,5° is a fault? How do you tell differences and make the right call when a ball is close to whatever angle you decide is ok?
Yes that's debateable. Normrally the tolerance is up to 45° from what I've learnt. However I know from Craig Bryants Video that you'd might get called upon by exeeding 35° so that's up to the umpire.
It would not have Made any
difference in that particular Match but it was nerving nonetheless and way too strict.
For better explanation watch Craig Bryants Video on the topic that explains this better than I can write here